The Grapplers Perspective
Welcome to The Grapplers Perspective Podcast, formally The Everyday Perspective! We're your Co-Hosts, Paul and Danny, we're both BJJ fanatics and Health and Fitness Professionals but essentially, everyday blokes. We talk to Grapplers (and occasionally other interesting people) to get their perspective and learn what we can about Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Grappling, physical and mental health, fitness and nutrition.
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The Grapplers Perspective
#89 - Christian Graugart - BJJ Globetrotters: Build Friendships, Not Business Relationships
Christian Graugart, founder of BJJ Globetrotters and Beltchecker.com, shares his mission to create a jiu-jitsu community built on friendship rather than business relationships. His approach has grown into the world's largest jiu-jitsu affiliation with 1,300 academies worldwide and over 100 camps conducted across multiple continents.
- Started BJJ Globetrotters to offer an alternative to traditional affiliations that charge money and control belt promotions
- Recently hosted camp #113 in Heidelberg, Germany with 330 participants and 35 instructors
- Believes jiu-jitsu's rigid hierarchy creates problems, preventing knowledge sharing and improvement
- Criticizes how jiu-jitsu is taught compared to professional sports coaching methodologies
- Began traveling to learn jiu-jitsu in 2011, visiting 56 academies in 5 months
- Developed camps organically when visitors to his Copenhagen academy became too numerous
- Created BeltChecker.com to provide community-based verification of jiu-jitsu ranks
- Implemented time-based black belt degree promotions on BeltChecker, challenging traditional promotion models
- Values the human connections formed at camps, including friendships and even relationships that led to "camp babies"
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Christian. Welcome to the podcast, my friend, how are you?
Speaker 2:Thank you, I'm good, a little bit tired.
Speaker 1:I'm at camp in Germany Slightly exhausted, but yeah, yeah, it was great to meet you and, as you say, is it the German camp there? Is it the Heidelberg camp that you're currently at at the moment?
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, summer camp in Heidelberg, yeah, nice, biggest one we've ever done. So it's a it's a bit overwhelming but uh, in a good way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, is that the uh, is that the location? That's like a bit medieval, like with a castle and stuff. Is that the same place?
Speaker 2:um, yeah, yeah, there is a castle. Yeah, I mean, there's a few of those camps, yeah, as opposed to in Europe, right. Yeah, exactly, there's usually a castle somewhere.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sick. And how many people have you got at the camp there this year if it's the biggest one you've ever done?
Speaker 2:This one is 330. Wow, so it's quite intense. Open mats yeah, I bet.
Speaker 3:You've got a load of Eastern Europeans, polish, killing each other. Yeah.
Speaker 2:No, it's actually. It's very, very chill, to be honest. I mean, everybody's here to train for a full week, so there's not. I mean, the Open Mets are very relaxed. If anybody goes hard, it'll only be on the first day, and then they keep doing that anyway, so we don't actually have anyone who rolls hard ever. It's just not sustainable. You'll figure out really quickly that it just doesn't make any sense to go competitive at the Open match and as well.
Speaker 3:I guess it's not for that. It's for a nice chilled week doing some jiu-jitsu, having fun meeting people. You're not going to make many friends in a week if you're trying to kill them.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, the camps are 100% designed to sign you on adventure. Some people come just for training, some people come just for socializing. Some people don't even have a ticket to the camp, they just show up for to see their friends and go out and kind of everything in between. Especially with more than 300 people, you kind of find every niche. You'll have the competitors who find their little corner and they go kind of hard. And then you have the Dungeons and Dragons group who just sits and plays magic cards in the corner, and then you have the Dungeons and Dragons group who just sits and plays magic cards in the corner, and then you've got the hobbyist dads and the lightweights and the heavyweights and like everyone can kind of find their niche there. So there's not like a general way that people do it. To be honest, it's to sign your own adventure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, that sounds good. And which instructors have you got with you at the moment?
Speaker 2:I think there are like 35 instructors at this camp.
Speaker 1:Wow, so too many to mention then? Yeah, that's a lot, isn't it?
Speaker 3:Yeah, 35.
Speaker 2:We kind of drown in an ocean of instructors. So nobody's really been nobody. It's impossible to put on a pedestal in any way as some big name you know, which is kind of all. Everybody gets to teach one hour, that's it all week. Yeah, okay, we don't really do like celebrity camps, it's not our thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, yeah, makes sense. Cool man, and we're chatting away about your camp. But we should obviously mention, for those that aren't familiar with the uh, with the wonderful head of hair that you've got there and and what we're talking about. But you're obviously the uh, you're obviously a bjj black belt and founder of bjj globetrotters. Um, we're obviously talking about one of the, the camps that you run, but for those that are maybe sort of new to what you guys do is as big as you are, um, maybe tell us a little bit about, obviously, what bjj globetrotters is, and then maybe tell us a little bit about, obviously, what BJJ Globetrotters is and then maybe tell us a little bit more about what it stands for in the camps and everything else.
Speaker 1:Well, it's kind of a long story, but You've got a little while mate, so go for it.
Speaker 2:Well, long story short yeah, how do I even define it? It's a good question. How do I even define it? It's a good question? I think it just came. It just randomly, accidentally happened, as, maybe as a response to a traditional way of doing jujitsu, affiliations and relationships I thought I would feel I would try to see if someone were interested in doing things a little bit different than what's common in jiu-jitsu. So you could call it an affiliation if you want.
Speaker 2:What is an affiliation anyway? Nobody kind of knows, there are no rules for that or it could just be a traveling network to make it easier for people to travel and meet and find like-minded people to roll with when they travel. Or it could be the camps are also a big part of it that we kind of meet up and train and do stuff and travel together. But it's depending again on how you define it. It is by now the biggest jiu-jitsu affiliation in the world with I think 1,300 academies across the globe now that are kind of signed up to be part of it. And again, being part of it can be anything from just listing your club's name on our website to using it as a full-blown affiliation as you would with a traditional one. But again, design your own adventure, whatever people want to use it for. The one thing that we don't do is we don't charge any money for anything and we don't do bill promotions. That's basically the two things that we took out of it.
Speaker 2:I felt like I wanted to build something where relationships are based on friendship and training and not so much on business and wanting something from each other, such as spell promotions, and I feel like that's worked well for us and I'm very excited to see how this works. This has worked really well long-term in terms of building relationships with people, because anyone who's been in jiu-jitsu for a while have seen that relationships can break and split up and there can be all kinds of unsaid things and expectations and disappointments and stuff, and I think it all stems from a lot of relationships are built on one part wanting something from the other part, which is usually an upgrade in social status, which is symbolized by a piece of tape on a belt or something that they can post on social media, and if we just take that out, then we can build things based on people just making friends and training. Basically, that's kind of what I try to do and I think it works well for us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, that's good. And yeah, I know exactly what you mean about the, I guess, the hierarchies and the politics in Jiu-Jitsu. So that's cool that you've kind of removed that. And when you say you've kind of um, you kind of act as an affiliation. So I think I've seen people like competing in the ibjf, like comps like under globetrotters. So is that one of the things you guys facilitate, is people are able to enter those sort of comps without having to be part of a paid for affiliation as well?
Speaker 2:yeah, I, I mean anyone can compete under Globetrotters if they want. That's cool, man, that's really cool. Yeah, that's cool. Nobody will care. I mean, honestly, if you sign up for a competition, put anything on it, nobody's ever going to check you. That's only in your imagination that it's important Really. Nobody's up for it. But yeah, anyone can compete. I mean, we used to do it under IBJJF. We had a bunch of friends who would sign off those paper forms. It's a dinosaur era system that they run with paper forms and signatures. But we got banned from IBJJF for being, I guess, too liberal with the affiliation businesses. So we can't do it for the IBJJF anymore, but for any other competition in the world.
Speaker 1:Typical IBJJF.
Speaker 2:To fucking stop that, right, yeah, I think I mean we're obviously provocative in a way that we try to kill the business affiliation basically, which I think we're kind of successful with. So that might be good or bad I don't know if I'm a bad guy or a good guy but we definitely try to offer an alternative that's not based on having a business relationship with someone that you need to invite for seminars twice a year so that they can promote your students that they don't even remember the name of and then one day you're good enough that you don't really need them anymore. But you kind of feel like you have to keep them around, you know, still keep that business relationship running and yeah, it's just. I just don't believe in that, honestly, that part. So I just wanted to offer an alternative that's based on not that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, that's really cool and was like other than the affiliation. Was there like anything else, like within sort of jiu-jitsu that you kind of saw, that bothered you, that kind of facilitated or was the catalyst for you starting this and going on this journey as well, in regards to sort of behaviors or politics of people in the, you know, in jiu-jitsu?
Speaker 2:I mean, there's a lot of weird things in jiu-jitsu, you know.
Speaker 1:There is indeed yeah.
Speaker 2:It's very fucking strange. Humans are strange, you know, and I think there's a lot of, there's a lot of the hierarchy fucks up everything. To be honest, you know, like this part, that we all live in this strange little bubble, that if you are, I mean it's human nature. You know, we all choose, we've all chosen to be part of this group of monkeys that thinks, let's say, that has a little hierarchy, that says if you're a black belt, you cannot be questioned in anything, says if you're a black belt, you cannot be questioned in anything by someone who's a white belt, because no matter how good they are at whatever skill it is and that's really, really weird there's a kind of hierarchical protection of those in the top in basically almost every subject.
Speaker 2:Something that's relevant at the moment is teaching methodology. You could come in as a white belt and be an actual, let's say, university professor in how to teach sport, but you could not question the black belt in how they run the class. That would be awkward, I mean, you'd probably be reprimanded for it. Or, even better, in best Brazilian pedagogy, they would just crush you in sparring until you learn, I never fucking understood that this guy needs to relax.
Speaker 2:So I'm going to go really hard on him until he relaxes All these weird things, you know and I think that that's very sad. Honestly, I would say there's a lot of controversial, or not, but the culture from one country where this came from there's a lot to unlearn for us. There's a lot of culture to unlearn in the West and that's a lot of work, but it's happening. Let's say, 10, 15, 20 years ago, the entire culture of the sport was dictated by those at the top of the hierarchy, from Brazil, let's say, like a certain macho, hierarchy, hierarchical culture, and the only way to break out of it is that we have enough people that reach the same level of skill so that we can say, okay, we don't actually need your culture anymore, we can start to create our own, you know, start to question things, and I think that's what's happening a lot right now.
Speaker 2:Is that kind of? It's not Brazilian jiu-jitsu anymore, let's be honest. I mean, it's world jiu-jitsu. You know, like there are so many areas of the world where this sport is developing rapidly, the Brazilians are still the best. I mean, let's be honest, there's always someone in the favela who will beat anyone, you know, but yeah. So I think we've had a lot to unlearn and there's still a long way to go.
Speaker 2:But it's very healthy to question things, you know, like I have a friend who's a professional football coach and he knows a thing or two about teaching sports. And when I tell him about how jiu-jitsu is working, how we're teaching jiu-jitsu, he's like what the fuck are you guys doing? What is this the Stone Age? We're so far behind professional sports. It's unbelievable. I mean it's.
Speaker 2:And that again comes from the hierarchical part, because whoever just won most, like whoever gets most medals, becomes the instructor and no questions asked. You know it doesn't. It doesn't matter how much or how little you actually know about teaching. No, no, because you're at the top of the hierarchy. No one can question you. So now you run the class and no one should tell you what jujitsu is or how to teach it. And that's kind of weird because, as I said to this guy, this is like super high-level football coach and if he started jujitsu he would know a thing or two about how to teach sports, but he, in our culture he would not be allowed likely not be allowed to question the black belt instructor until he kind of proved that he could be. He could hang on the match. You know that he can. He can not get submitted one round by the black belt. Okay, now tell me about how to teach sports. That's a strange culture.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we have this discussion all the time because me and paul are both, uh, personal trainers and strength and conditioning coaches, so we we talk about like how, off the mats, like they just don't look after their bodies and they're constantly saying, you know, I'm getting this injury, I'm getting that, and I'm like why don't you lift? They're like, nah, I was on the mat and then I just always. It just always baffles me how yeah you just they just do not think about anything other than just time on the mats killing each other, time on the mats killing each other. And it's like everything else outside of that, because the coach may not believe in that methodology, or just don't believe in S&C, which is a another thing, or nutrition, or any aspect outside of just doing jiu-jitsu.
Speaker 1:Or because they're a black belt in jiu-jitsu. They're an expert in all of those things and tell people what they need to be doing, which is often not correct.
Speaker 2:Well, we all know, when you get a black belt, you automatically also become a life coach, certified life coach. Right, this is it.
Speaker 1:I can always fall back on that. Yeah, this is it. I can always fall back on that. Yeah, this is it. It was funny what you were saying about how, um you know this, this kind of hierarchy exists because danny came into jiu-jitsu like uh, 30, what 32, 32, yeah, three years ago and it's quite like uh, you know, he's quite a sort of successful guy in other aspects and and I'd been in and out of jiu-jitsu for a very long time since I was a bit younger but he came in as like a functioning adult and was like what the fuck is this? Why are these strange people walking around like they're gods in the gym, in pyjamas, what's?
Speaker 3:going on. It baffled me, didn't it? I used to say to you, like, because I come from like football and I played to an okay standard and, coming from football into that, I was like what the fuck's going on? I've sat on the mats and the coach has given me like a 40-minute life lesson and he's basically still living with his mum. I'm like, what's going on? You know what I mean? I just couldn't fathom it. I was like I just want to learn Jiu-Jitsu, mate, Like I don't need any of the other stuff.
Speaker 2:The correct response from you would have been, by the way but it is funny though, isn't it?
Speaker 3:because it's just one of those things like I don't, it's going to take a long time to get that aspect out of Jiu Jitsu, and I think it's. I think. I think over time it will get better. I think it will get better because even the top Jiu Jitsu athletes and stuff they're starting to realise they have to do their S&C, they have to look at other professional sports and then look what they're doing, because else we are so far behind and if we don't catch up, it's never going to quite get there. And I think the guys at the top it'll fill it down. It'll fill it down, but it might just take a while.
Speaker 2:I mean, in all aspects we are just complete amateurs in the sport compared to any other professional sport out there. Completely agree, but there's nothing wrong with that, to be honest. I mean that can be nice, it's a good social fitness, so it doesn't. I mean there's no money in the sport. Yes, probably never will.
Speaker 1:So I think that's what makes a big difference and then and then sort of you know from your conversations with your friend and various other people that you've met, sort of at the camps and and on your travels. I mean, what do you think like jiu-jitsu practice should look like? What do you think the hierarchy and the room dynamic should be?
Speaker 2:well, I'm not a jiu-jitsu coach, really, so I don't think I'm qualified to answer that. I've been coaching a while but I retired and I don't claim that I know anything about teaching sports, to be honest.
Speaker 1:No, that's fine, but I mean you've obviously had a lot of conversations with the people. I mean, what are their views? Like your friend who's the football coach, what's his view on how things should look?
Speaker 2:It should just look like any other sport practice. I mean, it's not very good, that's not complicated. Actually, honestly, jujitsu how it's being taught today looks more like how I was taught taekwondo in the 80s than it looks like sports. It's very sad, but it's very, very. We were laughing at like okay, I do this punch, keep the hand out and I'm going to block it and then do this and this. But honestly, that is how jiu-jitsu is being taught in the vast majority of clubs right now and I just think it would be very valuable for anyone who's trying to teach jiu-jitsu to go and look at how sport like ball sport is being taught. Just go look at basketball, tennis, football, whatever. Just see how they run a practice and then just do that, try to do that. That would be very, very valuable.
Speaker 2:Because there was a thread in the forum on Build Checker recently about someone was laughing at someone offered like a 14 days course to become a jiu-jitsu instructor and like who does he think he is offering that? But to be honest, my response was 14 days is probably 14 days more of coaching practice than most average jiu-jitsu black belt has ever done in their entire life. As my friend Prit said, if no one has actually ever taught you how to teach sports, there is a very, very high chance that you have no fucking clue what you're doing. And that is very true. You know, and I think that's very true. I mean, most jiu-jitsu black belts out there who are teaching have no clue about what they're doing. They might have a clue about jiu-jitsu, but not about how to teach sports.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think it's people as well. You've got to know how to. I think some of the best coaches I've worked with are really good with people. They'll put their arm around you if they need to and they have an emotional response to what you were doing and they show some keen interest and some good pointers. And I find sometimes when you can have a black belt, who's really good? But they're just a bit on the spectrum or they're just not very good socially. They'll just a bit on the spectrum or they're just not very good socially. You know they'll just bypass it, you know. I mean it just doesn't, doesn't come into it.
Speaker 1:Just do the technique, do this respire and that's it, you know yeah, I think the fact that I think the fact that you know a lot of instructors are there, as you say, because they've been successful athletes, often athletes uh, typically quite selfish people sometimes because they need to be in order to get to that standard.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, don't always make the best leaders, yeah but I think things are changing, culture is changing and it's definitely things are happening. So that's good and I mean it's probably going to show in the results at some point. And then everybody's like, oh, I guess we actually have to learn something about our job.
Speaker 3:Yeah, man, at this point yeah, I guess it's like anything else, though it's not all coaches. There's some very good black belt coaches out there. You know, and I'm just shitting on every single black belt coach, it's like there's some very good ones and you know I have some very good coaching and some very good you know sessions and I feel like I'm progressing quite well, but I think it's just that divide at times in there. Yeah, man.
Speaker 1:And then with the camps, christian. So you obviously said that this one where you're sitting right now is the biggest ever. When was the first camp that you had? When was the first one you ran?
Speaker 2:It's difficult to tell because it took a while before. We kind of said let's try to call this a camp. Okay, I did a round-the-world trip 2011. When I started jiu-jitsu, there was nowhere to learn it. We kind of had to figure things out on our own. So I traveled a lot to learn jiu-jitsu to the US and 2011,.
Speaker 2:I got this silly idea to go all the way around the world to try to learn jiu-jitsu from everyone and everywhere I went I visited 56 academies in five months and everywhere I went I said, hey, if you're in Copenhagen, come look me up, I'll show you around, we can train and stuff. And that was all good and fun. But unfortunately, everybody kind of came. So I was really really busy tour guiding every single week and I just constantly had guests, which was great. But it was a bit much. There was a point where I remember six months nonstop, I had guests every single week for six months. It was a point where I remember six months nonstop, I had guests every single week for six months coming. It was a bit much. I was happy to show people around and take them out and everything. But I was like, okay, okay, we've got to figure something out. So I tried to make a lot of people come the same week and there were like 25 people coming in one week. All that.
Speaker 2:I had kind of met around the world when I visited and trained with people and that was really fun. I mean, we just trained a lot, going out, eating, partying a little bit, and that was really fun. And we thought they should come back next summer. And they did and they brought some friends. And then they kept coming back bringing more friends and at some point we were like we should call this a camp or something and see if someone else wants to join. So this was around 2012 or something. We did a bunch of these in my academy in Copenhagen and at some point Globetrotters kind of happened simultaneously and we said let's call it a Globetrotters camp and see what happens. And then the snowball just started rolling and here we are. This is camp 113, I believe, in 13 years. So it's been quite a ride, but also a lot of fun, a lot of good training.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I bet man, that's awesome and it's funny. You mentioned Prit. We spoke to him recently I think his episode's out on monday actually and and he joked that um, before before globetrotters he was, you know, didn't smile much, didn't accept hugs, but globetrotters has kind of changed him a little bit and softened him and he went as far as saying that the, the camps actually changed his life. So you're obviously doing amazing things with bringing people together and I mean, you know kind of what sort of like, what are you kind of seeing? What have you learned yourself from doing the camps, like about people, about jujitsu? You know what's your kind of summary over the last 13 years? If you could try and manage that.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's a big summary. I don't know it. Just it feels like, honestly, just like one big blur. I can't really tell the camps apart. Is that a fire alarm?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it's just a test man. It should stop in a second.
Speaker 2:Let's hope it is. Is that fire behind you, guys? Very?
Speaker 1:good, take a minute to maybe think about your answer. There you go. Is it going to go again? To maybe think about your answer. There you go. Very good, is it going to go again, or is that it? I think that's it Okay.
Speaker 2:That's what everyone said before they burned and died man in history. I think it's just a test now.
Speaker 3:I'm pretty sure it's 9.30 on a Friday.
Speaker 2:we forgot that's not a real fire.
Speaker 1:If nobody ever sees us again, mate tell them we love them fire. If nobody ever sees us again, mate tell them we love them.
Speaker 2:That's not a real fire. What did I learn from it? I'm not sure. To be honest, it's just been endless holidays with friends, to be honest. I mean, it's so many thousands of people coming through and I made a. The one thing that's interesting is that I somehow ended up living a socially overwhelming life, which is rare in our time, I would say.
Speaker 2:Just to make friends as adults, that's super weird. How do you do it? Normally, I don't know. I don't know. You just meet someone's friend and then you ask them if they want to go bowling or something. I don't know how it works, but with the camps I just meet so many people and I think that's the most valuable thing that's coming out of this is that people just make friends as adults and they have a good time together. Everybody's kind of happy friends as adults, and they have a good time together. Everybody's kind of happy. They share something training and traveling and that makes me very, very happy to see people meet and become friends. And then they do maybe other camps together or they do other things together and they meet outside the camps. A lot People start doing their own little camps and it's a very cool thing that I just kind of.
Speaker 2:I think the camps can kind of break that thing where it's really difficult to to become friends as adults, and I think that's the most valuable thing that we can do with them. And this goes for adults even. You know, we have some family camps where kids become friends, and I was like I did like one. We do one camp a year where people can bring their family, just one, it's enough for me and I thought I'll just do it like that, like as a one-off. You know I would do it.
Speaker 2:And then at the end of the camp all these kids were like crying and hugging. I remember there was someone from Bangladesh and Norway that just became the best friends ever and they were crying so much when they left us and I was like God damn it, I can't stop doing these kids' camps, because who am I to take away those friendships? You know, people become friends for life and even I mean even some adults meet and make camp babies. So like some humans exist because I decided to do a camp, that's kind of an insane thought. So if I didn't do the camp, I would have indirectly killed someone or denied their existence. Indirectly killed someone or denied their existence, and that's a wild, wild thought, you know, to have that power, in a sense, to create friendships and even create humans, you know, and relationships, and that's something I take very, very seriously in a way, to create these opportunities for people to, to meet, um and uh. I think that's the most valuable thing that we do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, that's hell of a reason to uh to keep keep going, mate. So, yeah, that's really cool, and you've obviously uh, you obviously do them. You obviously do them there in the winter, in the summer you, of course you're in the caribbean, out in the states as well, in places like iceland. So, like, um, I guess, guess, when did you start expanding to kind of different regions, and is there any kind of one location personally that kind of, for one reason or another, means the most to you, that you enjoy visiting the most?
Speaker 2:I don't have a favorite camp. I like them all. I purposely make them as different as possible so that I can't compare them. I mean it's impossible to compare this one in Germany to the one in the Caribbean or in Austria. I don't have a favorite. What was the first question? Sorry.
Speaker 1:It was how you ended up expanding into the region.
Speaker 2:I mean, it was basically just we did those in Copenhagen and I'd been traveling a lot and I didn't want to stop doing that, so I thought I want to travel more. Someone randomly emailed me and said, hey, I live in Costa Rica, no, el Salvador. I have a house. We could put mats in the garden if you want to come over, and it's on the beach, we can surf. And I was like, yes, I want to go. And then I was like, but that's expensive, let's, maybe should we try to call it a camp and see if, like, a few people want to go, and then we could all help, like pay for it. And so we did a camp in El Salvador. We did that four years. A beautiful place with mats and a garden and surfing every day, and that was awesome.
Speaker 2:And then someone else said hey, I live in Austria. I'm a snowboard instructor. If you ever want to come snowboarding, let me know, just like if I just wanted to come visit him and train a little bit. And I said, hey, I'm doing these jujitsu camps. Maybe we should. Is there anywhere with mats, can we invite someone to join? And we found this place and 60 people signed up and I was like damn, this is awesome. You know just enough people to help pay for my holiday. And then we just trained a lot and snowboarded a lot, and that's how every camp goes.
Speaker 2:You know, I just I want to go somewhere and I'm trying to figure out if anyone wants to join me. And I mean now, it's now a lot of people want to join me all the time, which I appreciate. But even if nobody signed up, I would still go to the same camp. I would do the exact same thing. I would just be here in Heidelberg, I would roll with myself. I need just one person, at least for the open mats, but apart from that, I would still do the exact same thing. I would 100% go if not a single person signed up. So, as I say, the camps are basically just my holidays, that I just happen to invite a few thousand people a year to join me. That's kind of the concept. I do the camps because I want to go there, that's it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's cool man. And is there anywhere that you've not visited or trained at that is currently in the works or planning to maybe run a camp at? I'm sure a ton of places, but anywhere that stands currently in the works, or planning to maybe run a camp out? I'm sure a ton of places, but anywhere that stands out.
Speaker 2:In particular, I'm not saying anything about any plans. I don't because I I always I look at a lot of places and I do a lot of research and I I have extensive spreadsheets of every major match space in the world, but most of them never materialize. If it's only 95 out of 100 things on the checklist, then I don't do it. And if I start talking about ideas I have or something, then we have hundreds and hundreds of people who get excited and they call their friends and say, hey, do you know, christian might be doing something there? And then I say, but guys, it didn't work out. I don't talk about any planning until it's 100,000% confirmed.
Speaker 2:But generally I'm trying to slow down a lot in the coming years. I want to do a lot less camps. I've been doing 14 camps a year for many years and it's just not sustainable for me to keep doing it. If I don't slow down, I'm going to be doing that until I die and I would like to do a little bit less. I have problems with that, with doing less, so I need to force myself to slow down. I took three days of work since 2003, so I need to force myself to slow down. I took three days off work since 2003, so I would like to be better at that.
Speaker 1:Good luck with that then, mate, and can you take us back to your kind of the origins with Jiu Jitsu? I think I read somewhere that you started around 1999, so you've been at it for a long time 99 or 2000 or something.
Speaker 2:Uh well, jiu-jitsu didn't exist. I I kind of I did taekwondo as a kid, like 10 years, and then had a break as a teenager, but then I kind of missed it, missed doing some martial arts. And I I found this advertisement for jeet kune do, bruce lee's fantastic MMA, kung Fu, street fighting style, and I was like I'm going to do that, I'm going to become a street fighter at 17 years old or something, and it was pretty fun, man, it was really cool to do something completely different, because I'd been doing nothing but kicking holes in the air for 10 years and it was really cool to even just do some striking. I was like, wow, this is awesome, you can punch stuff. And then someone grabbed me. Someone grabbed my head in a headlock. His name is Christian, he's still training. He grabbed me in a headlock and I was like what the fuck? You can grab people like this? Because I knew about judo and wrestling and stuff, but I never really thought about it, to be honest, because I only did like taekwondo was just walking back and forth and kicking in the air, that was it, and I never, like I knew it existed but I never in my mind imagined that you would do it. I don't know what the fuck was happening in my head, but someone grabbed my head in a headlock and squeezed and I was like holy shit, you know, like this is what I want to do, and I never looked back. You know, I never looked back ever since, since that first headlock where I was just like what the hell is happening and I've just been I kind of obsessed over things and I've just been obsessing over grappling ever since we, um, so we were, we were, I mean this, this group, this, this, um bruce lee group, we, we, we had like, uh, it was, it was cool, I started reading all the bruce lee books. I had like it was cool, I started reading all the Bruce Lee books. I had the nunchucks in my room in my parents' house, nice, I had the posters, the Bruce Lee posters, all that shit. I practiced my sidekicks in front of the mirror and stuff. I did the whole thing.
Speaker 2:But we were like a small group there who thought grappling was really fun and we had three tatami mats or something, so like six square meters that we grappled on. But this was you know, we're wearing socks, you know socks and uh. And then also we were doing it with, um, scooter helmets so we could like do headbutts and elbows and soccer kicks love that, love that. Yeah, that One of the guys were jumping the fence to a festival. We were very poor. He would jump the fence to a festival just so he could steal the sleeping mats like kind of the yoga mats from when it finished that people left behind because he used them to do padded weapons that we would use like baseball bats and shit and sticks and then we would use like baseball bats and shit and sticks and then we would just go one-on-one, two-on-one, five-on-one, two-on-two with baseball bats and scooter helmets and basically no rules. It was super fun, man.
Speaker 2:As a young guy it was like this is a really learning hard fight. And then at some point we just kind of I just kind of thought it's kind of silly to train so much how to fight someone in the street when I'm never, ever going to fight anyone in the street. You know, I think actually I was at more risk of getting in a fight because of the training, because it was constantly on my mind. You know, you see someone on the street and all you think I can eye poke him and knee him in the groin and then just like I do all this shit, and it was like shit, that was all-consuming, and it was at the age of 17, 18. And that's when I kind of thought, okay, well, maybe sports is healthier because we can actually do stuff. You know, we can actually try this out, because it's very frustrating to train something so much and not be able to test if it works, you know.
Speaker 3:The only way I could ever test.
Speaker 2:It would be like to start a fight somewhere and that just doesn't happen, you know. So sports became more interesting. We started there was no grappling in the country back then. So the first that we did was we just did like inter-club championships in valley toodle, like MMA, no whole sport, just everyone fight each other one day. That was really fun. And then we did like, okay, it was like that's fun, but someone gets no-holds-barred, just everyone fight each other one day. That was really fun. And then we did like, okay, it was like that's fun, but someone gets knocked out. And then it's like, okay, let's just do grappling competitions instead, not like knockout, but like it got a little bit rough sometimes. And we thought, okay, we'll do grappling competitions in the club because there's no other clubs who grapple. So like who do we compete against? And then some other little groups started popping up in the country and I just started organizing competitions to for us to try stuff. You know, and I I hosted a lot of competitions in in for many, many years in denmark, um, and as the scene kind of grew, it got bigger, bigger and bigger and it was all like submission only kind of. We had a strange rule set. It was submission only or ref's decision. So we had three referees who would vote for the winner, which was kind of interesting. I liked it. Those were good competitions and so it was all just like trial and error. There was no one there.
Speaker 2:Um, after some years some, like some Brazilians, moved to the country black belts and uh. But I kind of felt like it was not the culture I wanted to follow. You know, we wanted to build our own uh, because, to be honest, back then we were we were just a group of friends. We were basically a drinking club with a jiu-jitsu problem because we just partied every weekend. That's all we did. Then we rolled the sparring, mma and jiu-jitsu. Slowly it kind of turned into a jiu-jitsu club with a drinking problem over the years. But that's basically all we did and yeah.
Speaker 2:So I wanted to build my own culture. I didn't feel like I wanted to do the whole like sign up for the whole Brazilian thing. I knew that would be much more efficient for me learning jiu-jitsu, to have better sparring partners like more experienced coaches and stuff. But we'll do it slower. We wanted to put a surfboard on the wall, play silly music at Open Max and just go out and do social stuff all the time, and that just didn't fit in with the vibe I was getting from other groups that were kind of setting up with like, okay, line up by belt order, no music for sparring. It's like, oh God, it sounds like a nightmare, to be honest. You know, for me at least it works for someone else. So that's what we did, and then it was all just trial and error. To be honest.
Speaker 2:A lot of competition, seminars, traveling, and I started teaching since day one, basically because we were like we want to learn this and the Bruce Lee Kung Fu instructor was a really, really cool guy. He was very good at what he did, but he obviously didn't also have any grappling training. So we bought some VHS tapes online. It took like three months to get them from the US and these were like Randy Couture, chris Howder Also got some Japanese pro wrestling tapes. It was amazing, some Japanese shoot-fight fighting tapes and stuff, and we bought them online. And then I had the tapes in my house. So I was like, okay, christian, you're the one who watched the tapes last night, what are we doing today?
Speaker 2:So I just started teaching like that and after a few years we decided like, okay, let's try to do an actual sports club instead of because the street fighting sports they ain't kind of like, you know like. So we started our own club when I got my blue belt in the US or something and we started a club there in Copenhagen and rented some match space from a judo, from the national judo team. Eventually they moved and we took over the match space and we ended up with a club of like 700 members at the peak in Denmark. So it was a great adventure. I mean it was slow.
Speaker 2:I wish if I knew back then what I know now about training sports and even just about the sport itself, then it would have been completely different. But honestly, we enjoyed the process. I mean I don't regret a thing. And it took us a while to get our first black belt. It took us 12 years before we had one black belt in the club. But it didn't matter. You know, it didn't matter. It didn't matter. People loved being there and we loved the training and ultimately everyone kind of became really good at this sport MMA, jiu-jitsu, muay Thai, we had kind of everything. So yeah, that's been quite all right and something I'm very proud of.
Speaker 1:Yeah, mate, it sounds like a lot of fun. And yeah, it obviously went down well, mate, if you had that many members eventually. So yeah, sounds good fun. I mean this was over.
Speaker 2:Just to be clear, it was not just like 700 people doing jiu-jitsu, we had also MMA kickboxing, even had some fitness stuff. But the club had like 700 members.
Speaker 1:But it says a lot about the culture though, doesn't it? I think, if you've got that many people in a room doing anything, in a building doing anything, it says a lot about the culture.
Speaker 2:In the beginning I was more interested in MMA and I was teaching that also for 10 years or so. I really I was a big fan of Pride, also known as the peak of MMAma in human history, I believe, was the big pride shows. That was just amazing to follow, um, so. So that was kind of my focus for a long time and, uh, I had one fight but it was like it was like, like, uh, like um, like parachute jumping, what do you call it Skydiving, and just wanted to try it. It was not really for me to keep doing it. I think it takes a certain personality to enjoy that, but just to say I did it to test Again, just to test, to try myself out when I was young.
Speaker 1:Yeah, mate, and in regard to the belt you mentioned, it took a while for you to get a black when I was young. Yeah, mate, and in regard to the belt you mentioned, it took a while for you to get your get sort of a black belt in the room. Was that somebody that just came as a black belt or were your guys getting graded somewhere somehow? Like, how did you get your belts back then?
Speaker 2:Yeah, how did it work? I went to the US and I trained a lot there with a group and that's where I got Blue and Purple Belt Purple Belt back in 2005 or something, and I kind of broke away from that group, but it didn't work for me Again, strange hierarchy, stuff and dynamics between humans, adults and then we just did our own thing. We didn't care about it. Honestly, I was in Provo for so long. It made no difference to the team at all. Eventually we became friends with. There's a Brazilian guy in Sweden, just across the bridge, who came over and trained with us. I just met a lot of people through competitions. This guy came over to train with us a bit and he gave me a brown and black boat at some point and that was it. It honestly made no difference for anything. So it took a while. I got my black belt in 2012 or something, but yeah, I don't think it made any difference.
Speaker 1:No, it doesn't sound like it, not with, I guess, your kind of approach to jiu-jitsu man, I was just curious and obviously you said you traveled a lot and went to what was it sort of 56 academies and kind of did a bit of a world tour, and I think you wrote the book about that. Right, I did, yes, yes, I wrote a book back then and it'd be great to just, I guess, get like a bit of a summary of that trip. And also I'm curious about sort of training, the way you did with like sort of friends essentially who'd kind of you know, been self-teaching together. But when you experienced your first like high level black belt, what did like high-level black belt?
Speaker 2:What did that feel like? My first experience with a real black belt sparring was when I trained with an. I accidentally was Not accidentally, but I had the opportunity to go train with a national judo team in Denmark. Okay, I only did no-gi. At that point I thought I was kind of a pretty big deal. I trained like four years or something, had a blue belt. I was one of the a big, pretty big deal. I trained like four years or something, had a blue belt. You know, I was one of the only blue belts in the country.
Speaker 2:And then I had a chance. I met a guy who trained as a national judo team. I was like, hey, can I come and maybe roll with you guys, or something Like sure, I had my ass kicked like never before. And that was the moment I decided, okay, I better learn this gi because I was drowning. I was underneath someone's big blue gi and I could not breathe and I couldn't get out. It was one of the most horrifying experiences of my life. I felt like a child in the hand of bears and I was like God damn it. Okay, so I'm not the only one in the country who knows how to grapple, you know, apparently. And that was my first real experience. And then I rolled with lots of black belts here, and there you know who just.
Speaker 2:But that never ends. You know that's from day one. Until you stop training. You run into someone who makes you feel like you never trained a day in your life.
Speaker 3:It like you never trained a day in your life.
Speaker 2:It just happens now and then. We all have that experience, even today. Now I do. I row with thousands of people every year Now and then there's someone who just makes me feel like God damn it. I know nothing about this sport, I have nothing against this human, and that's just something you have to kind of lean into and accept as part of the sport. Because unless you're the best in the world which is statistically impossible to kind of lean into and accept as part of the sport, because unless you're the best in the world which is statistically impossible then it's just going to happen. And I think it's also important to seek it out and just roll with everything. My rule was always I roll with every single person who walks through my door in the gym and that includes getting my ass completely handed to me in front of all my students. But that's a very healthy and important thing to do, you know yeah, man for sure.
Speaker 1:And then that sort of that trip you did we kind of touched on it at the beginning and it obviously ended up leading to the globetrotters camps and everything else and where we are now. But like thinking back to that, that kind of what was that like sort of going to all those different academies and traveling and meeting all those people?
Speaker 2:In the beginning it was scary, like super scary man, because I was a brown belt and I was kind of. I was pretty good. I felt like I was pretty good at jiu-jitsu, like maybe at my athletic peak in life at like age 30. And I was pretty good at jiu-jitsu, like maybe at my athletic peak in life at like age 30. And I was pretty good and even though I've been competing a bit, I still didn't really have the confidence in rolling with strangers who might beat me.
Speaker 2:I mean, there are weird things going on in your head with the belt stuff. You know, like it's so fucking weird. Like, oh, we have this visual indicator of how we're supposed, how we're expected to perform against someone in an athletic like thing, and it's just not real. You know it doesn't. You cannot apply that to any other sport in the world. Just say, oh, we divide it into like 16 different skill levels or whatever it is, 25 belts with four stripes on each, and then if you're like a three-stripe purple belt, you're supposed to, you're expected to beat a one-stripe purple belt or whatever. You know, it doesn't work like that, but it fucks with our heads so bad.
Speaker 2:And I was a young brown belt and I said, okay, I just have to get over this, I just have to go and roll with everyone in every single club I can find and it was. I remember, man, the adrenaline, some of the warm-ups at the first clubs I met. I just clearly remember we were running in circles and I couldn't breathe out of like holy shit, everybody looks at me, I'm the visitor, some brown belt who is supposed to be pretty good, but I just look at all the belts and like, oh shit, who am I supposed to beat? Who can maybe beat me? And I was like I couldn't breathe, you know, and it was horrible. But honestly, I mean, it's like competition. Once you've done it a few times, it's just nothing, you know. And the camps helped me with this tremendously because the camp open mats. I have hundreds of people to roll with, all strangers, many of them strangers at least, and you just kind of like accept, all right, you know I might win or I might lose, but that kind of is what it is.
Speaker 2:It was just exposure therapy. To be honest, once you've done it enough, then you just don't care about it, and that's how it is today at OpenMads. If it's no-gi OpenMads, you don't even know You're always like is this a really good blue belt or a really bad black belt? I can't tell. I have no clue. I have no clue how good this person is supposed to be. Then afterwards it's gi and it's like oh shit, that was a really good blue belt or that was a very bad black belt. You just don't know. I can't feel how good people are.
Speaker 2:So I think that exposure therapy is very important too. I think you have to put yourself out there and roll with everyone you possibly can, otherwise you just dig a hole deeper and deeper and deeper for yourself. That makes things more and more uncomfortable and complicated and scary to train with someone. So I use the camps a lot for that. I roll with everyone I can at camps. I mean a little bit less now when I'm not 30 anymore, but I try to do as many rounds as possible with strangers and I think that's very healthy.
Speaker 2:I see people who train in their own academy for 10 years and they never run with anyone outside of it. I meet them all the time at clubs and you can be very, very good in a very limited group of people, like a very fenced-off group, or you can be very, very good in a small, enclosed circle of humans, but if you're not being exposed to all kinds of different games, then you take yourself out of that group and maybe you run into someone who does things a little bit different and you feel like a complete beginner and you just need exposure to every single game out there. And I think that's the strength of my jiu-jitsu now is that I will roll with anyone and I don't care how it goes, and also I've been exposed to every single game I think out there just from rolling with so many different people. You can do it with competition as well, but it's expensive and you only get a few minutes at a time.
Speaker 2:And the next best thing is to just go visit other academies. Just go to your neighboring academies they're not bad humans, you know. They're probably pretty nice and just go roll with everyone at OpenMaths. You might even make some friends there who know they might just have signed up for another academy than you, and I think that's incredibly important for Jiu-Jitsu. Otherwise, again, you can get stuck in that for years and years and years, that you just get more and more scared of rolling with people outside of your group and then one day you might even become at the top of the hierarchy, an instructor or a black belt or something. And then it's even more difficult to go and roll with someone else, because then the expectations are even higher that you can perform in an athletic setting and you probably can't if you haven't done it, I mean.
Speaker 2:So better go out there and just get it over with, just rip off the band-aid really quick.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, yeah, I love that. That's great. And just to finish up, mate, you're obviously involved with the beltcheckercom website, which is really cool. I'm a verified member of that as well, and it seems to be a great forum and lots of really cool people in there. You've got quite big numbers globally there as well, I think. Now, what was the motivation for starting that and tell us a little bit about that website?
Speaker 2:Well, back when we offered to sign those forms for IBJJF the paper forms when we did that, there were some like oh yeah, I guess we'll sign for black belts. But if you sign for a black belt, is it just that you sign that, yes, they can compete there, or is it that you verify their belt? I think it's perfectly vague what it is. It's not very transparent. And then we thought just to avoid any criticism if someone signed up for Globetrotters they wanted to compete at the IBJJF we said, okay, at least you need like five people, five black belts, to email us and tell us yes, this guy is legitimately a black belt. It's okay as kind of a verification that before we signed it because there was like out of like, let's say, six, 700 people that we signed for, there was like one person who once faked a purple belt Right, can you sign for my purple belt? And we're like yeah, okay, whatever, just go compete. I mean nobody cares in the world anyway. And then there was like a big oh, globetrotters has signed a fake purple belt. He was actually a blue belt. And there was like someone called us out on the underground forum and I was like relax, kids, it's like this. Whatever they were like okay, okay, you need someone to email us and say, it's okay, you know. And then we ended up actually with we needed to have a staff go through these emails like fucking nonstop. And then every time we got an email, we, okay, let's look up their Facebook just to check that this person's actually Black Belt, you know, look at the pictures, find them. And this was became a lot of work for one of our staffers to just constantly verify that people are what they say they are and that people who say they are something that they also are what they say they are. And I thought there must be a better way to do this. So I used to work in software many, many, many years ago and I thought I could build a system to make this better. So that's when the idea of Bell Checker came up, to automate it, basically, and to say, if we're going to sign for someone to compete under Globetrotters, then you need a verified profile there, because then you need someone who's also verified to say this profile is correct. So basically, like community-based verification of credentials. So I built that and that kind of took off like crazy and started a lot of debate, which I think was very, very good and very healthy. And then I just announced that, yeah, now we will sign for anyone who wants to compete on the Globetrotters we will sign, but you just need a verified bell check profile. And I think then and that was the point where IBJJF says, oh no, you cannot be part of this anymore, you're out.
Speaker 2:And I'm like I think actually it was I think we just raised the bar significantly for rank verification. Yeah, way, way more than traditional affiliations do, but you invite someone once a year who doesn't even know the name of your students and then they kind of sign. They have someone at the top of the affiliation signs all the papers and they don't know who is who. So I think it significantly raised the standards for rank verification in jiu-jitsu and it seems to work. It's been running like five or six years now and it's still growing and people are using it and I mean it's not like something that you use every single day, but I see every time someone actually gets promoted, they go and update their profile, then other people verify it and I think in terms of having a built database of Jiu-Jitsu ranks, that's trustworthy. I think it's the best there is. I mean, nothing compares to it. So that's a good project. It's very, very interesting.
Speaker 2:And that kicked off another thing that I found very interesting, because Jiu-Jitsu has two separate belt systems, right. I mean there is the colored belt system, which is based on performance or whatever, and then, once you get to the black belt, that kind of stops. Then there's a new belt system that takes over, based purely on time, based purely on staying alive, and it's got nothing to do with skill. It's even worse than in traditional martial arts, because there at least, you have to do a kata or something to get promoted to some new black belt degree. In ninja, at the fifth degree black belt ninja, you have to dodge a wooden sword with your eyes closed. I mean, in jiu-jitsu you just have to, not a wooden sword with your eyes closed. I mean in jiu-jitsu you just have to not die.
Speaker 2:Come on, guys. I mean why do we have these, these time-based black belt ranks? They make no sense. Well, actually they do make a ton of sense, because if you want to build a hierarchy in a sport, it's a pyramid, right? The problem is that when too many people, after, let's say, 10, 15 years, everybody becomes black belt level, it's too crowded at the top. So you have to build another pyramid on top of that and if we base that only based on time, then the old guys will always stay on time and keep their seminar business right.
Speaker 2:Then I am now a seven degree black belt. So you should respect me and expect that I know more about teaching sports and I can also perform better than you, which is just absolute bullshit. We have no. There's a reason why the average age of, like I think, the Premier League is like 23 years old, because that's like athletic peak, you know. But we keep this weird hierarchy and honestly it is so far out. I mean, we laugh at other martial arts, but brazilian jiu-jitsu has golden stripes on the belts. When you get high enough, you know silver stripes and then gold stripes, and then I was like it's, it's so silly, but it's such. It seems like such a desperate way of clinging on, to staying on top, and I find so.
Speaker 2:What I've experienced too much in jiu-jitsu is that having these hierarchies will kind of can force people to stay in relationships they don't really want to be in, like because they okay cool. Can force people to stay in relationships they don't really want to be in Because they say, okay, cool, I'm training with this and this person, who may or may not be a very, very good person, but they could also be a very bad person. Some of you might not even like them, they could even be accused of all kinds of things Very bad. And then you say, yeah, but I'll stay until I get my black belt. And then that say yeah, but I'll stay until I get my black belt, and then that's it, Then I'm free. I would wait.
Speaker 2:After your black belt, you need to wait another six years to get two stripes so that you can also give someone a black belt. And then after that, by the way, you have to hang around because he needs to verify that you don't die, so that every three, five years, he can give you a stripe on your belt. And this can somehow force people to stay in business relationships they don't want to be in, and I find that very, very sad, to be honest, and I've seen it. I've seen countless of examples on this. So if we have a belt system that's based purely on time, why do we need someone else to promote you to black belt degrees if it's just time? That's a very important question, but the culture of course dictates that no, no, no, you need to maintain a relationship with some guy who has more stripes than you and they will. Then, when time comes, they will then give you the next stripe and verify that you've stayed alive for three years. So that's interesting.
Speaker 2:But then there's another weird aspect of it that IBJJF will also promote your Black Belt degrees purely based on time. As long as you keep paying them, you don't need an instructor, you don't need to have a professor. If you just keep paying IBJJF, they will also give you these stripes, send you a certificate in the mail. Basically, they sell promotions online and they do this a lot. I mean, this is just like a completely valid thing that people do Because they might have lost the relationship with their instructor, and then, okay, I'll just keep paying to IBJJF and then I'm going to apply for my degree with IBJJF and they send you the certificate. So they sell belt promotions online, which is usually completely frowned upon in our community, but that's okay.
Speaker 2:So I thought, hey, if they can do that, if the way to get promoted as a black belt in black belt degrees is actually a way more trustworthy verification of when you got your belts and how long you've been training, because everyone can say this is true. This is not true. The entire community has the voice to verify or dispute it. If we have now created a platform where we have very, very trustworthy data on when you got your black belt and that everything is in order in terms of our let's say, our cultural agreements, then belt checkers should also be able to just give you these degrees based on time, because it's only based on time. There's nothing else. Really, you can say, no, no, it's based on training with someone. But that's not true, because you can also just sign up for IBJJF and get the same, and all the old guys do it. They just get their degrees from IBJJF. So that's not true.
Speaker 2:So why can Bell Checker not do the same thing? So I just added a feature saying once you've been a Black Belt for long enough, belt Check will say, hey, you are now completely. The entire community has verified that you've been a Black Belt for three years. You can now apply for your degree. And then it's like click, and now you're a first degree Black Belt Congratulations. And that's honestly very interesting, because that breaks the business model of keeping that relationship with someone. It breaks IBJJF's business model and it breaks the business model of those in the hierarchy who just keep relationships based on. One day they're going to give you a piece of tape on your belt that you can post on Instagram and get social recognition. Get social recognition and I think this has been a quiet revolution in Jiu-Jitsu, because I think it's more than 600 degrees now that are verified on Belts Checker.
Speaker 2:That's a lot of seminars. That's a lot of seminars that's been canceled right there. So of course, it's voluntary. You can also just do it with someone if you prefer that. That's totally fine. Most people prefer that. You can also just do it with someone if you prefer that. That's totally fine, most people prefer that. But I just think it's important to offer an alternative for someone who just wants to do things in a different way.
Speaker 2:And just to be clear, this is 100% verified by the community. Because if everybody disagrees on this, if most people say no, this is not cool, we shouldn't do this, then they just download it and then that system cannot exist, because it's not like I have the power or the administrators, it's all the users have the power to approve or not approve this. So if the community decides no, it should not be based just on time. It should be based on being promoted by someone. Then they can just download it, and then this feature does not exist anymore. It doesn't work, but they don't. People say that time-served degrees are okay, and there's 600 of them and it's only going to be more. So I find that interesting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, that's cool work. Mate, you're going to get yourself assassinated by the Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu cartel at some point, but in the meantime, mate, I love your work. But, mate, it is a really cool feature. As I say, I'm a verified member on there as well and obviously the community voting around that sort of stuff is obviously what gives it its power. Like you say, it's not one or two people making decisions. I mean, how many members have you got on that website? Now? It's tens of thousands, isn't it? I think 40,000. Yeah, it's like an insane amount of jiu-jitsu practitioners. All of them have a voice. So it's cool, man.
Speaker 2:We made some statistical calculations that there are at least half a million jiu-jitsu practitioners. So we're very, very small corners of the sport still, but I we're very, very small corners of sports still. But I think it's a good offer for people to use, and for some people it's useless, which is just how it is, but for others it might make good sense. If you're teaching or whatever, it's nice that people can look you up and say, okay, it's actually someone vouching for this person, knowing what they do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, mate, I think it's great to disrupt things, mate, so you're doing a good job. So, yeah, love it. Dude. Mate, we know you've got another podcast in a second, so we'll let you go, but is there anything?
Speaker 3:you want to finish up with.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man, any thanks or anything you want to shout out with Not really no, I can't think of, but it's been nice to do a podcast with you.
Speaker 1:Yeah well, nice to meet you and good to chat and hope to meet you in person at some point.
Speaker 3:But thanks for your time, brother. Thank you.
Speaker 1:Thank you.
