The Grapplers Perspective
Welcome to The Grapplers Perspective Podcast, formally The Everyday Perspective! We're your Co-Hosts, Paul and Danny, we're both BJJ fanatics and Health and Fitness Professionals but essentially, everyday blokes. We talk to Grapplers (and occasionally other interesting people) to get their perspective and learn what we can about Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Grappling, physical and mental health, fitness and nutrition.
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The Grapplers Perspective
#93 - Mark Macqueen - Grapplers Who Think Strength Doesn’t Matter Aren’t Living in the Real World
We talk through a world champion’s pivot from powerlifting to jiu-jitsu, why coaching culture at Kingsway changed everything, and how smarter stand-up, pinning, and true strength finally showed up on competition day. We share a clear plan for lifting, cardio, and plyos that keeps you improving without burning out.
• ADCC Trials win, what improved, and why confidence clicked
• Kingsway and ROKA coaching structure, daily feedback, and partner quality
• Austin move, visas, lifestyle trade-offs, and training rhythm
• Powerlifting career highlights, identity, and the emptiness after winning
• Strength’s real role in grappling performance and longevity
• Practical S&C: two-day lift split, one cardio, simple patterns
• Rep ranges, sets, plyos, and keeping compliance over years
• UK training roots, cross-training, and competition plans
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Mark, welcome to the podcast, mate. How are you? I'm doing great. Thanks for having me. How are you doing? Yeah, I'm well, thank you, mate. And uh I just mentioned offline that obviously Danny's not here today, so uh apologies he couldn't make you was looking forward to the conversation, but uh hopefully we can still have a good one, mate. So uh yeah, looking forward to this.
SPEAKER_01:No, that makes both of us. Thank thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_00:No problem, mate. And are you uh are you back home in the UK now?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, we're back home since um trials and now we're just we're just waiting on visas to get accepted, um hopefully accepted to get back out in America full time.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, okay. So uh so yeah, we'll come on to your experience at Kingsway in a second, but firstly congrats for the trials. Uh second is it the second trials win that you've had now?
SPEAKER_01:Uh yep, that's yeah, it's two in a row.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, nice mate. And tell us a little bit about the uh I guess how the event went over the over the couple of days and how you found it this time round.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so um I mean I I thought it went, I I thought it went really well. Of course, things things can always go better, um, but for me I was I was pleased. Um I think it was a lot better than the than the first trials that I won. Um the first trials that I won um were you know one it was an an extremely hard day, you know. All the matches were very, very competitive, very hard. But just from uh even from uh my own like grappling perspective, I thought I was probably quite quite poor. Um and uh I don't I didn't really think I did uh you know I wasn't particularly happy with myself or my performances. Um and uh yeah, and also as well probably back then too, obviously my my level of grappling as well um wasn't wasn't what it's at now, so I think just as well I you know I just did maybe make particularly that uh great an account of myself, whereas I feel this time around I feel like I did um much better, both from just being much better, um, and then also I felt like um I performed much better too. I felt like I made a much better account of myself. Um so yeah, I'm happy with I'm I'm happy with how it's gone. There's a few wee things that are maybe not, you know, that need to be better, of course, always. Um but yeah, we're we're we're we're slowly getting there.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, there's also man, and I mean the fact that you can still pull out a trials win and kind of reflect back and feel that you weren't anywhere near your best is is obviously awesome. So the fact you've gone into this recent one, you know, kind of with that extra experience with jujitsu and obviously feeling like your game's clicking a little bit more, obviously it's gonna it's gonna definitely pay off. And was there anything in particular that during the the more recent trials that you did really well that you were really happy about that you've been working on perhaps?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so I think my um I thought my my my my stand-up was was far better. Um I think in the you know again previously um you know I I I feel like I've always you know I've always tried to um you know I'm always trying to get better obviously um but I feel I feel like this time around especially with my stand-up I thought my stand-up looked much better. I thought it was a lot more fluid. Um, you know, I've been we've been working on a lot of um you know like Kazushi drills and feinting drills and and things like that and I thought that that paid off massively. Um so I thought my stand-up game was much better from you know hand fighting to um you know feints and kazoo and and like you know the kazooshi drills that we've been doing. Um and I thought my pinning was much better as well. And I think just overall, I just I I think the main thing was I feel like in competitions I've never really reflected um my like ability in the gym. Like I feel like in the gym I I do things and I'm able to do stuff, and then I feel like in competition uh I I maybe um I've been too overly conservative and and you know and I've not really I've not really shown a lot of the skills that I have, whereas I feel like this time I was a lot less hesitant. Um and I think that just comes from you know, obviously one again being better, two um being more experienced, and then three, I think just being a bit more cal a bit more confident in my in my ability as well.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and that's interesting, mate, because obviously uh I think I can't I can't remember the exact quote from John Danaha, so I won't butcher it by trying to repeat it, but I remember him talking about confidence once, and he was saying that you can't talk people into some into confidence and that it comes from obviously the the kind of wins in the gym and on the mats and the confidence there then transfers across to competition. So it's interesting that you spent that time at Kingsway with those guys, and then you're kind of feeling like there's a a better transfer of skill from the mat to training room to competition. Do you think that had anything to do with it?
SPEAKER_01:Massively. Um, you know, this year I've spent six months, six months of in total at um at Kingsway. Well, four months at Roka, and then obviously two months uh at Kingsway, um, because it obviously it's only it's only been open recently, but I'd say massively. Um I think one just being like I I think the I think the thing is is that um one with with John and John and Gordon with them coaching, you know, like well literally coaching full-time and and you know taking every single every single session, um having their feedback, it's it's like you know, I think like you know, maybe back home the majority of my training, or I would say pretty much all of my training is quite simple, is self-led, um, you know, and uh you know I'm effectively kind of coaching myself. Um so then it's like if somebody maybe back home says, Oh, you're doing this really well, or you're doing this really well, it's like oh yeah, thanks very much. But it's maybe like in one year, in one year out the other. Whereas I feel like you know, there'd been a few times where Gordon or John had said something to me, and it's like, oh, like, okay, like that that makes me actually feel you know really good, you know. Like example, like you know, John um pulled me aside and told me, you know, he was how how how good my stand-up was looking, and you know, the kazushi drills it we've been doing from standing and whatnot. He was saying, you know, you your your gr your stand-up looks you know worlds apart to where it was a couple of months ago. And that that itself actually gave me you know huge amounts of confidence. Whereas I feel like if somebody maybe said that back home, it's like, well, yeah, they're my friend, or you know, they're you know, you so I I think that itself, and then also I think uh you know, so I so I think that's one aspect of it that I found really helpful because I I really value both of their opinions and I I like really trust both of their opinions. So I think that then when they gave me positive feedback, I actually took it on board and believed it, um, which I think has not happened before really for me. And then I think the second thing as well is just like who I'm training with over there, you know, like the people that I was training with, like you know, literally like Luke, Dan, Jean Carlo, Nicholas, um Gordon, um Aiden, Roman, like you know, the list goes on and on and on, like training with those guys. It's you know, again, like back home in in the UK, it's like if I'm having success against certain people, um, it's not like again, this isn't um I don't want this to come across negatively, but it's so it's it's hard to then you know maybe gain huge amounts of confidence from that, whereas if you're having success against you know these guys, I think that's just a a much bigger confidence booster as well.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, no, I I agree, mate. I can imagine that makes absolute sense. And and why did you why was it Roka? Obviously, the you know the it's kind of obvious because the the the athletes there and obviously the coaching staff are incredible, but there's obviously a lot of very good, you know, sort of academies, uh at our speed team. Why was it why was it Roka originally that you went to? Was it an invite thing? Was it because of the match with Dan in ADCC last time?
SPEAKER_01:Uh yeah, so Dan had so obviously Dan Dan invited me. Um so I would say that's the kind of the you know the the the the main driver because obviously again especially Roka now I know Kings Kingsway is obviously just like a a gym that is open to fully to the public. You know, anybody can go obviously because you know it's just uh you know a school. Um but Roker obviously was more we was invite only, so you know I wouldn't have had a way into that if it wasn't for Dan. So obviously Dan's helped me out you know tremendously with that. So I'd say that's one thing, but then also I think that the the thing is is that in in my opinion, I think you know John John and Gordon are the best coaches in the world. Um, so you know I want I wanted to be a part of that, and then also I think as well, um, and I'm not saying this is the case with B team or other teams at all, um, because I've never been ten of these, so I don't know, but it's more a case of if I feel like if I'm going to like uproot mine and my my my fiance's life to the other side of the world uh and to you know do all of that, I don't want to go somewhere that I'm still like self-leading my training. Of course, the people you have access to is far better, but honestly, I again I think the big the biggest thing for me since being there is is is actually having like having a coach, you know, like John and Gordon took every procession uh and you know I I think like that's what's what is you know it's it's not you know obviously being in that room, being surrounded by those people, being able to train with all those people that itself is absolutely invaluable. But I think even above that, you know, actually having two people that are like you know that they're there and dedicated to coaching you and just having a coach I I think has been um you know really really helpful.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, no, that makes sense, man. And um, yeah, I know what you mean about the the the kind of the coaching. I think you know we trained that we trained a B-team for a little bit and that was when Demon was there, so he was kind of running in the room a little bit, and obviously you've got some amazing athletes there, but it certainly didn't feel like there was a structured syllabus that you know like a permanent head coach or coaching staff were leading. So that makes sense. I think that you want to do that. And I and I did wonder as well, I think like the I guess we'll we'll get into your background with powerlifting everything in a little while, but you've obviously got some incredible attributes there, and it feels maybe a little bit like John and the and Gordon and those guys, their style might suit somebody with those sort of attributes. Was that something that you felt when you were there training as well?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, true, yeah, tremendously. Um, and I I think with the coaching thing, I think it makes sense because see as well, like every sport on the planet, like everybody, you know, boxers all have coaches. Um, you know, and like the thing is as well as you look at these sports, you know, football, you know, football teams all have managers. On top of managers, they have coaches, you know, they've got fitness coaches, you've got goalkeeping coaches, you know, you've got all you know, all these sports that are worth you know almost infinite amounts of money all have coaches. So it's a case of why would why would grappling be any different? Now I understand that with grappling, you know, it's not people aren't making tons of money, and you know, you can't be like, right, you're just my coach, and I'm just such and such is coach, and I take you know make money off of them because we get paid enough. I know it's not going to work like that, but um yeah, I I I think for me just having like an act like an actual you know coach and like you said, like a like the like what was so lovely was I just had to turn up to you know the two processions a day every day. I just like all I had to worry about was I just have to you know I just have to be there, and it's you know, and it's so nice and it's you know, like you said, there's like a real syllabus and there's the you know like real thought putting thing obviously as what what worked out quite well was CGI was one week before ADCC trials, so all of them were getting ready for CGI as I was getting ready for trials, so it was nice as well because they were obviously ramping things up for CGI, and then that kind of obviously worked really well in like peaking for ADCC trials as well. Um, but with regards to like the actual style, yeah, 100%. Um like honestly, like pretty much everything I do is just trying to copy what Gordon Ryan does, like his passing, his pinning, all this stuff. Uh and it's just from like watching his instructions, watching his matches, so then actually having these guys like in front of you teaching you, yeah, it's massively beneficial.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, mate, I can imagine. And and what's Gordon like as a coach? Because obviously most people know him as the goat, you know, of no-gi and an elite, an elite athlete. And John's often talked about the fact that you know one day he'll be an amazing coach as well. And you know, it seems like he's pretty much done, I think, with competing at this point, or it certainly seems that way. And obviously, coaching now is is basically what he does. So, what's he like as a coach?
SPEAKER_01:Amazing, yeah. His coaching is fantastic. I I've really you know, yeah, uh amazing. Yeah, the way he explains stuff, um, and just his knowledge. I I feel like there's there's generally not there's probably not anything I couldn't go with and you know not not have a not have an answer for. But it is funny because like being in that room or like listening to him and John talk about jujitsu and stuff like that, and it is just like, yeah, these I I don't think about jujitsu the way these guys think about jujitsu. It is it isn't like and what it is, incredible.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's awesome. And and tell me about Kingsway, obviously. We've seen the videos, I've seen the vlog with Gordon, it looks stunning. I mean, is it as good as it looks on the telly?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's a really it's a really nice high-end gym for sure. Yeah, uh it's lovely. Um but you walk in and the the the front desk is like a like a marble front desk. Um and like coming coming from Glasgow, I'm just like, this is this is unbelievable.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, mate, it looks it looks stunning. And um how about Austin? I mean Austin's a far cry from Glasgow, right? Certainly in regards to the weather and and I don't know, maybe the vibe of the place. I mean, we spent two weeks there and really loved it. What did you think of Austin as a city?
SPEAKER_01:Austin's cool. I mean, I I must admit, like, I I I love Glasgow, like I really do, and like um it's it's a shame to have to like move because like I I've you know we like me and my fiancee we really love Glasgow. Um but of course like for jiu-jitsu it we've got to, but uh yeah, Austin's cool. I can't lie, like um the the when the the for the first four months that we were there, my fiancee was there, so we we did go and do quite a bit of stuff that the other two months into you know, other few months into trials, it was just me, um my fiancee could make unfortunately. And I can't lie, I I if it wasn't for going to to to grappling, I'd pretty much didn't leave my room. Um so but yeah, no, Austin's cool. It's definitely a cult, it's definitely a shock uh weather-wise. Um I'm not I'm not like not okay with that heat at all.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, what month what months were you there for?
SPEAKER_01:Uh so July July and would it be July? When was trials? Was trials in September, is that right?
SPEAKER_00:Uh yeah, yeah. Yeah, so July-August. Okay, so yeah, the hot months then, right?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, it was and it's quite it's funny because that's I think they were saying that like for July and August, this is like the coolest July and August they've almost ever had, and I was I was fucking dying.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, man. Well, we were there in in April, I think, was it late, late April? I think it was before they had the Who's Number One coming up. Um I can't think who Nikki fought now, but but yeah, it was around April, and that was hot. That was hot, but it was bearable. So yeah, I can that we got to we got told a lot that it's just like uh a fucking oven in the uh in the summer months there.
SPEAKER_01:So it's it it's mental, it's absolutely mental, and even like you know, the weight like like look, you know, the weight room that I was going to to lift weights and do cardio and stuff, there was no AC, so it's just like oh, it was awful. But I I pretty much would like sprint from the house into the car, in the car, and I'd sprint from the car into the gym, and then I would just try and avoid going outside outside of that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, fair mate. What did you make of the food? Did you eat a Terry's?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, awesome, unreal. The the barbecue is absolutely phenomenal, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, it's beautiful food, man. And and to be fair, the people there I thought were great as well. Just the uh the homeless people are a little bit wild, so uh once you get used to those, it feels good.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, the the the the homeless people are pretty crazy. Like I must admit, like, you know, the the amount of times that like you're sitting at like a like an intersection and like obviously the the homeless people are the thing and like they're like trying to fight with they're trying to fight with like every car that goes by and yeah, they they they are fucking insane to be fair. Like they make like you know, like that's like I always thought that like you know, back in the UK, like I'm like our homeless people need to like pick their game up because they just sit there, you know, in Austin they are fucking mental.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, mate, it was uh it took some getting used to, but yeah. Good luck with that when you moved there. So is that the plan then now to try and get out there permanently and and stay out there for for however long your career lasts?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. So we uh we've we've we've we've put it in. So me me and my frontier we've applied for our visas. Um so it's just with the uh the immigration lawyer now that we've got he's been fantastic, so yeah, um it's just a case of obviously I've never done this before, so I I really don't know how long these things take or what to expect, but um yeah, he he seems pretty he seems pretty happy. I think the main thing is is that um for for what uh what we're applying for, I'm applying for like an athlete's visa. Um it's quite clear-cut as to like whether you kind of meet the regulations or not, you know, like the the stipulations of what what they're looking for. So luckily I I I meet all them. So think fingers crossed, you're in touch with I think it should be um as you know as straightforward as maybe something like that, that as like that could be, hopefully. So yeah, it's just a case of waiting for that now and then um we'll we'll we'll move out there full time like early in the early months, early next year. So yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it'd be good, man. And and how old are you now? How old? Yeah, 30. Okay, yeah, yeah. So still got a bit of time then.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, luckily, luckily I'm a heavyweight. So luckily I'm a heavyweight, so 30 years old for a heavyweight. Uh I know I don't look 30, I know I look I'm a bit 80, but um uh luckily um yeah, 30's pretty young. So realistically speaking, I think, especially in grappling and master, I've I reckon I've got like a a solid you know decade of of competing in front of me. Um, you know, so yeah, I'd say, you know, I've you know hopefully not even have not even maybe another five, six, six years before I hit my prime. So fingers crossed.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, man, for sure. And are you primarily focused on sort of pro Nogi or are you potentially looking to compete at like worlds and do I BGGF or anything like that at the moment?
SPEAKER_01:Uh yeah, so um with regards to um Nogi, I've got the IBGF Europeans and uh well that's only a few weeks away now. Um that's two weeks, two two weeks on Friday, I think. Um so I'm doing that, and then um I can't this year, I can't I can't this year. I did I did IBGF Worlds um in 2024. Um I can I can't do IBGF Worlds this year because I can't enter the country while my visa application is in is like uh if that makes sense, like I I don't know the word to use, but as it's getting reviewed, I'm not able to enter the country. If I enter the country, it would cancel the visa application. So I can't do IBGF Worlds this year, but I'll do IBGF Worlds next next December. That's the goal. And then obviously the most important thing is obviously and like my number one goal is ADCC.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, man, for sure. And uh are you a black belt? Uh no, I'm a brown belt. Brown belt still, okay. How long you've been grappling for now?
SPEAKER_01:Um just over six years, like six years, two, two months, three months. Okay. So not too not too long.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. And and always been grappling or based in Glasgow?
SPEAKER_01:Uh yeah, so pretty much. Um I've I've like to be fair, I like tra I've travelled around like the whole of the UK pretty much. Like um, so like the majority of my training and like my home gym is in Glasgow, Mark Orson Dini, Brazil and Jiu Jitsu. Um, but I also was up north. Um I trained uh in Aberdeen quite a bit with SPG Aberdeen. I trained up in uh way up north in Elgin um and Inverness with um uh and then I also train with um Ben Bennett and Matt Leo, you know, relatively regularly, and then I also have been down in London as well with like Owen stuff too. Um but pretty much the majority of it has been done in Glasgow, but I definitely like you know very regularly like travel around you know the the whole of the UK to get good training and and then obviously we've been to Texas a few times and then obviously um you know moving there hopefully sooner than later.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and and it's funny, mate, we we chat there's so many Americans on this podcast about like sort of cross-training and everything else, and I think in the UK it's so small. I mean, I think when we were in Austin or in Texas, we looked, and I think I think Texas is like 2.5 times the size of the UK, it's like so fucking big. And I think it just makes sense to travel around. Yeah, but it makes sense to travel around in the UK and and train because everyone's actually so close, as much as we don't feel like it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, oh no, for sure. Like, like you know, like that's like obviously I'm in Glasgow, and like for example, like Ben, his gym Matlio uh is down in Bradford. But like honestly, like that's only like depending on time of day, you're talking like three and a half, four, four and four hours away. It's really not that far, even like London, like you jump on a flight, the flight's an hour, you know. Jump on a flight at 7am, you could train the whole day, jump on a flight back home. Um, yeah, you know, it's it's definitely pretty accessible, but the size of Texas is insane. Americans always like I always find it quite funny because um, you know, like we're you know, I'm like, oh that's you know, for example, I'm like oh, London's fucking like that's ages away. It's like a seven-hour journey, but like to them, they're like, oh, that's just nothing. Like I attribute that every day, yeah. You know, it's insane how the distances that they try that they travel.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think that I think the difference though in our defence is our is their road, the roads are good, ours are shit. So I think that makes a difference. You know what I mean? It's easier to drive, you just cruise along, it's nice and straight and flat.
SPEAKER_01:So and they've got everything's automatic, huge big engines as well. We're driving around like how we feet 500.
SPEAKER_00:That's it, mate. That's it for sure. Let's talk about your transition into jujitsu, mate, because obviously you uh you lifted a few weights before jujitsu, right? So like tell me about what why you started jujitsu, and and then we'll get into maybe your background in powerlifting as well, because I'm quite interested to hear about that and then how that transfers also. But how'd you get into jiu-jitsu?
SPEAKER_01:So, how how I got into jujitsu was um I'd you know just I became very, very disillusioned with powerlifting. I I was I wasn't enjoying competing in it at all anymore. And and the reason for that was because it was just it was I was so heavy, it was such a miserable existence. You know, I was 24 years old and I was I was 150, 151 kilos. Um, so that's like I don't know how many pounds, is that like 340 pounds or 350 pounds or something? Yeah, around that, yeah. And uh yeah, and then even to like sustain that, you know, um you're eating like 8,000 calories a day, maybe you know, maybe a tiny little bit less, maybe a little bit more, but right around that like 700 to 8,000 mark, and um just a miser just a miserable existence, honestly. It's just really really not fun. Uh and I think that probably been heightened by the fact that uh in in my head I'd kind of done what I wanted to do, and um yeah, just just became very disillusioned with it, wasn't enjoying it at all, but mostly heightened by just being that size and upkeeping that size, you know, just upkeeping that size in general is is it's just it's just awful. Um, and then just existing at that size, you know, it's funny because for being so heavy, um I actually you know handled it pretty well in terms of you know, like I could still get about and like I could still easily you know go walks and stuff, and I was still pretty mobile. Um, but it's like you know, just takes so much energy to do anything, and then it's only once you lose it you realise, like, oh my god, I can't believe I I felt like that. Um so basically, yeah, just I I literally I just remember I'd not been wanting to do it for a long, you know, a long, long time, um, but was too scared not to do it because it's like you know, like well one like my my my business at the time, I was obviously like doing coaching, but I was only coaching powerlifters because of course that's what I did. Um and uh so my business is like tied to it, and then on top of that, it's like your whole identity becomes tied to it because all anyone speaks to you about is that, you know, and and and and obviously like understandably people are just being like nice and supportive and showing an interest, but it's never like oh how like just like how are you walking up to it's always like you talking to you about your lifting or what are you lifting or so you do this, so you do that. And it gets to the point like all anyone ever speaks to you about is your lifting, um, and and I know that people are just being nice and supportive, and that's not they're actually being you know nice, but you know, it's so it becomes real identity. So I've been not wanting to do it for a long time, but obviously too scared not to do it. And then I remember I went into one a gym into the gym on a Tuesday night to deadlift, and I I think I'd done had I done I I wasn't sure if I'd done my top set, but I think I'd just done my top set and I just I just walked out, just went, that's me, I'm done. I'm not doing this, I'm not not wanting to do this anymore. Um, and then um I was down in Leeds, so I'd moved down to Leeds for that, so I was I was so I was living in Leeds for that, um, and basically I didn't know anybody at all in Leeds other than the people other than the people that did parallifting. But then because I wasn't going to the Parliament gym anymore, I literally knew nobody and like barely like I literally was just stuck in a flat myself. I didn't know anybody or see anybody, so I was like I wanted to do something, and my brother at the time he was a blue belt in jiu-jitsu and he did jujitsu. I think I think he lived in Australia still at that point, but he was really into jiu-jitsu. I was just like, fuck it, like I'll just you know, it's something to do, it'll probably help it'll get me out of the house, you know, get me out of the house. I can do that, you know, once a day or you know, Monday through Friday. Get me out of the house, give me something to do. It'll you know, it's extra activity, so you know it'll help me, it'll help me lose weight because it's just you know, extra activity, and then before you know it, it's completely taken over my life, and you know, and yeah, it's all you know that it's just taking over everything.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, fair mate. I feel like um obviously we've well maybe not you because you're you're you're so fucking ginormous, but we've all experienced that like big strong white belt, and I almost feel like you're potentially like the spazzy white belt final boss being as big and as strong as you are. I mean, how were you received when you first fucking walked into Jiu Jitsi gym with your like your size and your background in powerlifting?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I'd I honestly don't know. I remember I turned up to my first of our class and I was absolutely fucking shitting myself. I've never been so I've never been so nervous uh in my life. I was absolutely like I was absolutely shitting myself and again I was down there and remember I turned up and it was in like a it was like a huge big building, but in the building there was like a CrossFit gym, there was like Caffies, there was like all these different businesses in it. I couldn't find it, and I was driving about and then it was like I remember the guy had said to me on because I'd emailed him obviously to like to go go for the book the class and stuff. The guy basically said like you know, come turn up ten minutes early um so we can get you sorted and blah blah blah, make sure not to be late or whatever. And like I literally turned up, I was like, you know, turn up quarter to ten quarter to nine or quarter to ten, whatever it wasn't on a sat on a Saturday morning, and um then couldn't fight it. It was like now two minutes past nine, and I was like, fuck it, I'm just I'm I'm not going in now, no chance. And like you know, at first I was like, oh, there's no point now, I shouldn't go because he told me to be 10 minutes early and I'm not, but it was actually just like I was like, I can't face fucking walking in there. But forced myself to walk in, and to be fair, they were you know super friendly, and if they were but the my memory went, I I don't think we're gonna have a gi that's gonna fit you. I remember oh for fuck's sake. So put this fucking gi on, and I you know, I can only imagine what I look like. I I know I look ridiculous, and then they gave me a white belt, but it was like an A2 white belt or something, and they couldn't enjoy you like take the belt and you tie it back and then you bring it back on itself, yeah. They just put it on me like you put like a belt on your trousers.
SPEAKER_00:Mate, it probably wouldn't even fit around your thigh at that point, mate, an A2 belt. It must have been it wasn't tiny on your belt.
SPEAKER_01:It just wouldn't it wouldn't fit and then um yeah, I and then and then obviously the you know jumped in the warm-ups and I yeah, it was it was it was honestly a disaster, like running around the room and then you know, doing the shrimps, forward shrimps, forwards roll, backwards roll, all that stuff, and just oh it was the the worst experience of my life. It was awful.
SPEAKER_00:I'm assuming you probably didn't have much of a gas tank if you were a power lifter either.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, no. And that like genuinely like that running around that room would have been the most amount of Activity I'd done in I don't know how long, how long however long I'd probably see 10 years maybe.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, shit, man. And and obviously, like as terrifying as that was, it wasn't enough to put you off. So you you obviously went back. I mean, leaving that first session, if you can remember this far back at this point, like how did you feel in like were you planning on going back once you'd finished that session, or were you like fuck this? And then you kind of really thought about it. What was the where was the headspace actually remember?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so I can't lie, I absolutely hated jujitsu when I first done it. I thought it was this like yeah, I I just didn't like it. Um it makes it make sense to me as well. Like I I remember thinking like I just don't understand, I don't understand. So like for example, like powerlifting, it's like, oh, I'm just to like lift this weight from A to B. Like football, I'm to put this, like you're to put the football into the net, or um you know boxing, I'm like, I'm gonna try and punch this guy in the face, you know. Like obviously, like yeah and I there's a clear objective with jujitsu, like yeah, I'm like, where like where do you go? Like like you know, if you're like grown with somebody, I'm like, where do you like go? Like what what's the whole point? I remember after like maybe four or five weeks, I I pulled one of the coaches aside. I was like, like, what like what what do you actually like do? Like, where do you like where do you go? Like, what do you do? And he was like, Oh, he's like, you know, you want to get by the legs and you want to get to to you know to a pin position, and then if you're like following like actual digit, like you know, like the truest form of jitsu, you're gonna try and get their back and then you're gonna try and choke them, and I'm like, oh, that actually makes like a little bit of sense. Um, but no, I didn't like it for sure, didn't like it. Uh didn't make sense, but I didn't understand it, didn't feel comfortable at all, felt very uncomfortable, uh, and just felt like a fucking idiot. Like just like it's just like just like this is just so embarrassing. But um yeah, I'm I I signed up to the I signed up. Um I again I don't I don't even know why, I just I just did I signed up, but it was like I think when you signed up it was like a two, like a like a two-month contract, or a I think or was it a three, uh, maybe a three-month contract, so it's a case of like you know, if I cancel, I'm gonna pay the three months anyway. So I was like, well, yeah. And again, honestly, I was just like, I'm not fucking got anything else. You know, I'm not doing anything else, so I may as well. So I just I just forced myself, I just honestly forced myself to go. And then after the three after three months, I moved back back up the road, back home to Glasgow, started training in Glasgow, and that's where my brother trained as well. Um and then yeah, just became pretty obsessed with it, to be honest. It was quite a sharp, quite a sharp turn from being pretty uninterested to being completely obsessed. There was like there wasn't really much of a like you know, gradual process. It was just like from pretty uninterested to pretty obsessed, almost like a flick of a switch.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so was there uh was there a particular thing or moment that clicked for you that that caused that that change in mindset? Was it like a competition or did things just start working and making sense? Was it like losing weight? What was it?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I'm not too sure. I came home and I I and then I think obviously just when I came home I started to enjoy it more. Um I think just because obviously like the school itself was great, you know, with Marcos and everyone there, um training with my brother, I'd lost obviously a lot of weight. Um, you know, I think I'd got down to about a hundred and I think at my lowest I was a hundred and seven kilos. I think that's I'd lost like 44 kilos, something like that. Insane. So yeah. So much weight. 100 pounds. Yeah, yeah, 100 pounds. So I think yeah, so is that like six stone or something? And then I'd done a competition, uh, I'd done a competition in Motherwood at Ravens Craig, and I think I I think I'd done that when I'd been training for I think I'd been training for four and a half months, maybe five months. And um I wasn't I remember again, like I I don't know why I signed up and I like wasn't nervous on the day at all or anything. Um because again, I just think I was still relatively uninterested. Then I I double goadie at that, so I double goadied at that competition, and then I think I yeah, I think I just kind of became a little bit obsessed with that, to be honest. I've I've definitely yeah, got a very obsessive personality for sure. Like I don't I'm generally either completely uninterested in something or completely obsessed with it. There's not really usually an in-between.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, fair mate. And and you did you say that you uh as as a as a living you were doing like coaching and stuff alongside that at this point? Yeah, yeah, so yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So since the age of so when I was when I left school, I was 17, I became a personal trainer, and then I was just like a personal trainer for um maybe like three, three years, and then I started um online coaching and just coaching powerlifters. Um, and then still to this day I've got my business, and it's just you know, still coach powerlifters, um, mostly coach jujitsu guys now, and again, that's just probably because that's what I do. Um, so yeah, it's just strength and conditioning coaching, but I've still got a lot of powerlifters to be fair. Um, it's maybe like 70-30, 60-40 in favour of jujitsu guys compared to powerlifters now.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, mate, that's perfect.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's very lucky because well, one that's why I'm able to move to America, because uh I'm I don't I'm not tied to one particular spot at as long as I've got you know my phone, my laptop, and and Wi-Fi. I mean to be fair, don't even need Wi-Fi anymore with with like you know, five stuff now. As long as I've got that, it doesn't even matter. And it's funny because the last the last time I was in Texas for a few months, I actually there was I don't even think that the majority of the people that I coach even noticed that I was even fucking in Texas. Like one, I remember one guy asked for something and I told him, He's like, Wait, are you in Texas just now? I was like, Yeah, he's like, Oh, I never even fucking noticed.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, the time difference isn't too bad, is it? It's like six hours, so it's like manageable.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, Texas is six is six hours behind. And if anything, that's honestly like if anything, when because because then I I'd like I coach people the majority of the people that I coach from the UK, but like I've got a couple, like I've got like a guy in Australia, I've got like a guy in Italy, guy in Germany, um, people in America, like people like all over. But like the majority of people I coach in the UK, but if anything, like most people work during the day, so most people are going to lift weights or do their strength and conditioning between like 5 pm and 10 pm. So actually, if they're like doing that between 5 and 10 pm and they send that over at 10, that well, like that's actually like the middle of the day for me. So if anything, it's probably even better because I'm available, you know, even more for their the time that they're in, if that makes sense. So not it it's it's very, very, very, very fortunate because one, it's again, I can train full time um because you know I can just work all my hours around training. I don't have to, and then two, I don't have to be in one specific place, so I'm able to like you know, we're able to move to America. So no, I'm I'm very, very lucky and very fortunate for sure.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, mate, 100%. And what do you primarily uh provide as a service for your clients? Is it like programming? Do you do like um technique observation and correction and that type of thing?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so so there's there's a few different like um packaging stuff, but with that you'll like uh like coaching aspect, like yes, so um full programming, so obviously they have their programming for you know where the whatever their sport is, um, you know, like it'll be fully customized to their to them what they need to do. Um and then with regards to like you know, they have each session, they'll they'll they'll ideally, you know, not you know, obviously it's up to them, but ideally they'll film every session, send over the footage, and then they'll get you know full feedback on that, and then yeah, we're we're in contact pretty much every day. So no, it's it's very comprehensive, it's very time consuming for sure.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, sounds sick, man. And and just for those that are maybe listening, for the the jujitsu nice that are listening, I mean we've talked about powerlifting a little bit, I know what powerlifting is, but can you just explain exactly what powerlifting is so that people understand what we're talking about?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so powerlifting is a very simple sport. Um basically you you know there's you've got three three movements. So you've got squunge, you've got squat, you've got bench, and you've got deadlift. Um, and a competition would work in that order. So you do squat first, then you do bench press, then you do deadlift. You have three attempts for each lift. So you know, for squat you'd get to do three different lifts bench press, three different lifts, deadlift, three different lifts. Um and you know, within the con within the context and confines of those movements, whoever lifts the most weight possible over all three movements would win the competition. So um, for example, you know, if someone is lifts more on bench and deadlift than me, but I lift so much more on them than squat than they do on bench and deadlift, then and my total is higher, then I would win the competition. So it's about your total at the end of the competition, not just individual lifts.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, nice man. And and when did you actually start like getting into that? Were you were you kind of lifting weights like growing up as a kid and then you got into competitive powerlifting, or like how did that how did that sort of happen?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so I I was I was pretty young when I started. Um I was pretty young when I started. Um I think I started lifting weights when I was four fourteen years old. Um I'd always been into fact actually even earlier than that because I remember like in my mum and dad's garage, like we had weights. I think we I probably started lifting weights when I was maybe even like 10 years old, probably, because we had access to weights from like a really young age. Um and uh yeah, just started lifting weights. I think I started I started going to the gym when I was 14 um and then and then lifting mates. Um and then when I was 16 years old, uh I tore my I had a full rupture of my ACL playing football. So I fully ruptured my ACL, so I needed a full ACL reconstruction on my knee. Um, so then basically a side effect, or not a side effect, sorry, but like part of the rehab, I luckily you know the NHS physio that I had was phenomenal, and I remembered they were basically just saying like we need to just get your leg as strong as possible. Um so then they were like, and weights is going to do that, so I really, really started taking weights seriously, and then obviously I couldn't, you know, while I was doing that, I couldn't play football anymore, and I couldn't do boxing anymore either. I wh while I was doing that, so I couldn't do the two sports that I was doing, and then I honestly just realized I was like pretty good at it, and then again I got obsessed with it. I started like looking into it, and I came across a guy called Pete Rubush, um, and um he was a pairlifter, he was like one of the best pairlifters in the world at that point, and I just thought he was like the coolest guy that I'd ever seen, and I remember being like 16 years like a six-year-old wee guy. Um, it's like so funny because that's it. Most 16-year-old wee guys are like probably like looking up fucking porn and stuff, and I was just watching Pete Rubish on YouTube. So I had my priorities straight for sure, but no, I remember just being like so enamoured by him, and then obviously then I you know was looking at all the other parallels, and I was just so enamoured and I was just like, I want to be like that, and then literally just went all in. I think I did I did my first competition when I was 17 years old, um and maybe might have been 18, I can't quite remember, and um yeah, just like you know, just dove absolutely headfirst into it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, sick man. And were you always like a big lad growing up, or did you pile on the weight as you got into your like teens and early twenties?
SPEAKER_01:No, so so like surprisingly, like you might people might not believe it, but I was actually very small as a child. Um, I think from like ages of like zero to ten years old, I was probably um don't think I was taller than not most people, but I was definitely like stronger. Like I remember when I was young, maybe like you know, six years old, seven years old, or eight years old. Remember I used to like arm wrestle with like my brother's friends, and my brother's like two years older than me, and I would like beat them easily and like toy with them. So I was definitely strong then. But then like when you went to like secondary school at like 11, 12 years old, like all of my friends were like had like hit puberty and were like growing and developing, and I was like so late to develop, like so so so so late. Um so I was honestly tiny, like I was really small. Like I remember like boxing, like I think I like you know, I I fought my first ever boxing fight was at 47 kilos, and then I fought at 52 kilos um for yeah, I think I was probably 14 years old, and then I might even like 15, 16, I was tiny. Um and yeah, honestly, I was like I was really small. Uh, and then at 16 I like finally like you know hit puberty and developed, and then you know, and then it did quickly change, but no, I was actually very small, um, just because obviously everyone else had developed and I was just really really late, just really late to develop.
SPEAKER_00:Uh-huh. Yeah, man, okay. And and when you said like you were pretty strong as uh pretty strong as a as a youngster, were you doing any particular sport to make you strong? Were you I don't do gymnastics, like farming, like anything? Or was it just genetics?
SPEAKER_01:Do you think no uh I think I I played rugby, uh I played rugby, I played football. I might use the term play loosely. I mean I I can't really remember. I know I used to go along with rugby in football. Um but uh I I think probably just just just genetically, I definitely wasn't doing anything that anybody else was doing. Um and then obviously then like I said, when you go into segment school, everybody develops, and then I didn't, and then it gets to a point, especially when you're like 15 years old. So I get 15 like back then, like I some people were like I meant like we're actually like men, you know, like facial hair, and you know, and like you know, I hadn't even you know I had you know like nothing, I was tiny, and then yeah, and then obviously then I then I developed and then thick things quickly changed, but then it did change very quickly, I suppose, because my first ever competition at 17 or 18, I competed at 110 kilos. Um so things did turn around very quickly, so I did become big very quickly, but no, growing up I was actually pretty small. Okay, and how tall are you, mate? I'm six foot three. Well, I'm six foot two and a half, I'm six foot two and a half, but you always round up. You always round up, of course, in in more ways than one. Yeah, so so six foot three.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, okay, so fucking yeah, big boy then. And um yeah, when you uh when you were competing, obviously powerlifting you said it's three lifts. So what were your uh what were your PBs for uh the for the free lifts I have interest?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so in comp so in competition, um my best lifts were and this is all raw as well, so in powerlifting you have um raw and you have equipped. So if you're people that are not aware equipped is like you get to wear knee wraps, um and you also like have like so like you'd have like a squat suit, a bench shirt, a deadlift suit. So basically in a nutshell, I mean it's maybe not doing it justice because it is very skilled, but you're basically putting on a piece of fabric that um allows you to lift more weight, you know, in in a nutshell. But um I was doing doing raw. Um so a 365 kilo squat and comp, uh a 210 kilo benching comp and a 350 kilo deadlifting comp. So they're my three biggest lifts. That's a fucking crazy squat, mate.
SPEAKER_00:That's a crazy squat.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, my squat was my best. When I stopped powerlifting, um, and I know this is like, you know, and and I didn't do it, so you know it's maybe not worth, you know, I can't claim it, but I would say when I stopped powerlifting, I was at my strongest by a mile, I would say I could have squatted 400. I think I could have benched 225, and I think I could have deadlifted about 370. Um I think I could have totaled a thousand kilos. My biggest total ever in comp is 920 kilos. I think I could have done a thousand when I finished. Um like I think when I finished my I'd squatted 325 for four reps with like three reps in the tank. So that's like a six, so that'd be like a seven rep max. Um I'd bench pressed like 200 for three with like two two reps in the tank. Uh and I deadlifted 340 for three with like I think a rep or two in the tank. So yeah, I was uh quite a lot stronger when I finished in my biggest lifts, but I didn't do them in competitions, so it's all all hearsay.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, sure. And what was your uh what was your greatest achievement in powerlifting, mate?
SPEAKER_01:Uh winning worlds, winning world championships for sure.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, mate, that's fucking awesome. But and and you said that like you you achieved that and then you were like fuck and I feel terrible, and then and then we kind of circle back to then sort of making that transition out.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, well, it's kind of like so so in the one year, so in 2017, uh I won the Commonwealth, the European and the World Championships. Uh I won the Scottish and British too, but um, you know, aye, they're like the three. Like I won the the Commonwealth, the European, the World Championships, and I was the only person to ever win the three of them in the one calendar year. No, people might have done that now. I for I for sure. I don't I don't know, they probably have, but at that point, no one else had done those three competitions in the same calendar year. But I remember like the only way the only this the only way I could describe it was winning worlds meant so much to me that um if someone had said to me um you can not win worlds and you can live you know a really happy life till you're a hundred years old, um, or you can win worlds, but literally from the podium you'll be taken out the back, and you know, that's your you know your life's over you know, you you have you'll you'll be dead. What would you want? And to me that would just be like the most stupid comment ever because I'm like, well, of course I'm gonna take winning worlds. Like, what are you crazy? Like that's not even that's not even a difficult question. Um, and I know how and I know to like a normal person or how a normal person thinks, and even like now I understand like that's just so such a stupid attitude, but to me it was like that's not even a difficult question. Like, are you crazy? Like, obviously I won worlds. Like, why would I want to live the rest of my life having not won worlds? It's pointless. Um and then I remember I won it. So I remember I won it, and then before you know it, it was all over. Uh it was all over the podium. Like you're on the podium, the Nash Lantern's going, it's all over. I'm back in an Airbnb, and I was in Belarus as well. It's a fucking what a weird place. Because in Belarus and I'm in an Airbnb myself, in my bedroom myself, I've got no Wi-Fi. I've got no Wi Fi, I've got no internet, nothing. I'm just like sitting in my room myself, and I was just like, like, is that is that it's like you know what that's not this is not what it was meant to be like. Like I thought, like, I generally would thought that like if I win worlds, it doesn't matter what happens to me for the rest of my life because I'm gonna like it doesn't matter, I don't care. Um so I remember I won it, I was like, oh well what the fuck, and then it's like you keep chasing that that that thing, but then it's you know, you then realize like actually you're never going to you're never going to get it because it's you know that's just not how life actually like that's not how life works, you know. Like you're not going to do one thing and like, oh that's the best thing ever. It's just not how it works. Um and uh I think as well like what maybe showed is actually that it's the importance of you know, you're never like and this is just me, maybe maybe maybe I'm weird or maybe I'm maybe it's my personality, I'm not sure. But actually like the actual achievement itself, I don't think is particularly enjoyable or particularly good. It's the it's the like it's trying to achieve it that I think is the the the like the the part that that's the important part. Like actually trying to do it. I think actually achieving it is you know is is is I just don't well just for me it's like you know it's the same like you know like trials or any of these things, it's like you know, it's like dedicate like literally every minute of every day of my existence to trying to win trials and then you win trials and then it's like you know, it's it's before you know it's over and you know it doesn't, you know, and it's like it's it's actually not about the it's not about like the winning aspect, it's about everything it's about everything else, I think.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, man. It's funny when you were talking there at the beginning, it's it's that's such like such an elite athlete's mindset. I've heard that so many times where people will literally just genuinely give up their life to achieve that goal. So I'm not surprised actually, like I agree that it is weird, it's definitely weird, but I'm not surprised to hear it from somebody that's an elite athlete, so it makes absolute sense. And I think um what you were saying there as well, I think it again sounds really cliche, but it's definitely about the journey. And I think all of the all the like the benefits that you get, like the mindset, like you know, the the small little wins, obviously they they kind of accumulate up over time and they've run up to something. And as you say, when you then achieve that, like it's really about everything you've gained as a result of working towards that, or the dedication, all the lessons from that, that really matters, I think, more than that actual accolade itself. So, yeah, all of that makes absolute sense, mate. And then obviously on to jujitsu now. So now we're rechasing uh a new dream with jujitsu, which is cool, and bringing that back to jujitsu. So obviously you were training, you achieved that in powerlifting, we started jujitsu and we kind of joked about it, but we didn't really get into like how much your strength, like maybe in the beginning and also now plays a role in your jujitsu, and and also I guess as a coach as well, like how important you think strength is on the mats and for someone who's doing jujitsu.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so I mean there's there's no twist about it. I think um my you know my my strength absolutely um matters enormously. And it's like you know, anybody that says strength doesn't matter, it's just it's just not like it's just not existing in the real world because if strength didn't matter, if strength didn't matter, we wouldn't have gender, we wouldn't have, you know, we wouldn't divide things by gender, we wouldn't divide things by weight class. Like there's a reason we do all of those things. Um you know, like there is just like it just is a thing. It's like you know, for example, it's like if we took if we some if we collectively as a world were like, right, we're gonna get our number one, like the best fighter in the world, and we're gonna put him up against a silverback gorilla, and like somehow the silverback gorilla know go goes into the cage and knows like he's not allowed to he's not allowed to bite, he has to abide by the rules of an MMA fight. So Silverback Gorilla doesn't know a single martial art, but he would literally rip our best fighter ever limb from limb because there is like a certain strength deficit that you just can't actually overcome. Because it's like you know, what are you going to do to Silverback Gorilla? Like, what are you going to do to that that thing? It literally could pull your limb off. Um, so there's no twice about it, it obviously matters enormously. Now, it's not the only thing that matters because I have lost to people that I am considerably stronger to. I consistently I lose to people in the training room, or that's maybe not the right word, but I'm gonna suppose it is I like lose and get tapped by people that I am stronger than for sure. Um so it's like it's not the only thing, skills are absolutely the most important, but the reality is if all if if I'm competing in my weight class and all things are equal, but I'm way stronger, I'm probably going to win more often than they are. Like if skills are equated for, if size is equated for, if experience is equated for, but I'm way stronger, out of 10 times I'm probably going to win 80, 90, 100% of them. If I if I go into a match with somebody and they are better jujitsu, but I am way stronger. Again, it's like there I've got a technique deficit, but they've got a strength deficit. So you know what is you know, it absolutely can close the gap. But again, so can technique. Technique can absolutely close the gap. You know, like these things exist, but it absolutely matters massively. Um and I think at the highest level, um, you know, like at the highest level, the reality is it's like I you know at EDCC, for example, it gets to a point is like everybody's like everybody's like really fucking good at jujitsu, everybody's fit, everybody's experienced, everybody's a high-level athlete, everybody's strong, so it's like the the little edges that you can have actually start to make a big, big difference. And I think the reality is that like for me, like, you know, if that's it, like if I just keep getting better and better and better, jiu jitsu, and I keep getting better, like eventually, like you know, I'm going to be as good as these guys, but I'm also going to be way stronger, so therefore I have like such a massive, massive advantage. So it's not the only thing, uh, and like the thing is that like strength overcomes massive deficits of technique, but then technique overcomes deficits of strength too. But um, you know, it absolutely is hugely, like hugely important. Um but I think as well, a lot a lot of people don't maybe think about it is it's not just about like strength isn't actually just about like performance on on a mat or performance in the competition, like actually as well with with straight like with proper lifting and getting stronger, it's you know, I actually think for most people because that most people don't actually want to have dreams of trying to win trials and win ADCC, or most people don't even have care about competing, most people just want to do jujitsu and stay on the mats. And the reality is that the the the stronger you are and the more muscle that you have, and the stronger you are through full ranges of motion, um, and the stronger your connective tissue and your joints and your ligaments and tendons are as a result of properly lifting weights, you're going to be way more robust, you're going to be way more resilient, and you're going to stay on the mats way, way longer. Um, you know, there's there's just no twice about it. I think for most people, um obviously the performance, the performance aspect of lifting weights and doing proper strength conditioning is enormous and you know you can go on endlessly about. But I think most people overlook it, and it's actually about longevity and it makes you way more robust and far more resilient. And also, as well, if you do get injured, you're going to come back from the injury way, way quicker and way better, and your body can deal with injuries way better if you're stronger. Um, and you'll also get away with stuff more as well. So, what might have injured you two years ago, if all of a sudden you're way stronger, you know, and much stronger through um you know a full range emotion, um you're going to be far more resilient through these different ranges of motions as well. So, yeah, I I I think the the the benefits are honestly pretty endless.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, mate, I couldn't agree more with all of that. And when um when I speak to because I do a bit of online coaching as well, but when I speak to like some of my jujitsu colleagues about doing weight training, the resil the the the objection is always that they you know they'll they'll do it if they're injured because they want to get back to the mats, but if they're healthy and they're not hurt, it's always because they don't want the time in the weight room because they feel that it's going to take away from time on the mats. So what's like what do you think the optimal split is in regard to kind of training and weight room? Like, what do you try and get maybe the athletes that you're working with to do and what does your own training look like?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so I would say for pretty much 99% of people, lifting weights twice a week is is perfect. Um, I don't think you need to do more than that. I think twice a week is absolutely perfect. Um if possible, throwing in cardio on top of that. But honestly, I think you could do cardio on the same time like when you're at the gym lifting weights, you could just do it after, so you still the frequency can still be two. But I would say honestly, for pretty much everybody, I'd say two lifting and one cardio per week is absolutely perfect. Um I think if you're taking jiu-jitsu really, really seriously, and that's your number one goal. I don't I think maybe you could extend lifting to three times, but really not necessary. Um with regards to like jujitsu-wise, I would say you know, just train like as often as you probably whatever your schedule can allow. I think as well, like I think the most important thing is that and it's one of my favourite favourite quotes. I don't know who said it, it's definitely I didn't definitely come up with it, but um, it's people overestimate what they can do in one year but underestimate what they can do in ten. It's so common you see people you know go absolutely flat out and you know fly for for a for six months, a year, eighteen months, and then you never see them again. Whereas if you actually just do much less but do it for 10 years, you're gonna be so much further forward. So I would say pick a realistic amount of time you can do jujitsu that you can actually sustain and comply with over a long period of time because that's actually what counts as compliance over 10, 15, 20 years, not over one or two years. Uh, and then lifting weights, I honestly think twice a week is more than enough. Um and yeah, I don't think you need to I don't think you need to do more than two times, and I think cardio once is is perfect.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, mate, love that perfect, great advice. And in regard to like rep ranges and that type of thing, obviously being a power lifter, I'm assuming you probably would have been at the lower end of rep ranges. I remember Gordon back in the day talking about the higher end and muscular endurance and doing like sets to 20 reps, and then people talk a lot about like ply metrics and the importance of that for uh resilient body in jiu-jitsu. I mean, what's your uh what's your lean in regard to that for jujitsu?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so plyos, I think plyos are good. I I mean I do plyos um every week. I think plyos are great. Um I do I I think plyos are fantastic. I do think right now plyos are definitely like the fashionable thing, I think, or became a bit of a fashionable thing to do. Um and I think maybe maybe the the the the the the bent like the bent people make plyos out to be like you know the the literal like saving grace of you know if you do plyos, like I I genuinely heard people talking about how you do plyos, it's like it's going to reduce your rate of uh like your risk of heart attacks and you know cardiovascular issues and stuff. And and maybe like absolutely because I suppose it's exercise, so absolutely maybe. But what I mean is is that I think they maybe get slightly overhyped, but I do think they're really good to do. Um I think plyos for me, I think reasons that I think they're great. I think one, I think again they can improve mobility, I think they can be really good for mobility. Two, just doing them personally, I my joints just feel healthier from doing them. My knees and my hips and my back just feel better for doing them. Now, you know, is it directly from doing them or is it something else? I'm not so sure, but you know, I would say it's pro I I feel confident in saying I think that they probably improve that. Um, and then again, I think they're probably I think they definitely have some benefits in terms of um I think that they can again make us a little bit more robust, you know, with the ability to like accelerate and decelerate through different ranges of motion. I think they can help. Um, one thing I do think with plyos though is that I think people think that they're going to do plyos and all of a sudden they're going to become the most powerful thing to exist and all this stuff. But actually, it's a case. I think the thing is that they forget is to become very powerful, you also actually need to be strong. Yeah. Because all power is is strength applied quickly. Now, if you don't have any strength to apply, you can't be powerful. Now, of course, you can be super strong and not powerful at all, but you can also be very weak and then not powerful at all, too. So I think that you know, if you're doing plyos, yeah, that's great. I would recommend doing them. I don't think it takes very long. I think you know, the it's always like it's like you know, risk versus the reward. What's the risk of doing plyos? I don't think there's any. What's the reward? I think there's quite a few, and I think that the time constraints that they take is very, very minimal. You know, you honestly could get away with doing them for 10 minutes twice a week. Yeah. But I think that to become to become more powerful, I think that getting really strong and not being overweight are the two main factors for being really powerful. I think the main things that stop people from being powerful are that either not strong or they're overweight and way too heavy. Um and then ret ranges wise, so um me personally, I I I think it depends on the the the like the the stage that the person who's lifting's at. So I think if someone's maybe a bit more of a beginner in lifting weights, um, or they're not particularly experienced, I honestly think for compounds between between five and eight reps, um, I would say is pretty spot on. And then I'd say for like accessories between six and six and twelve, and then maybe for arms between ten and fifteen is is pretty good. Um I think if people become a little bit more advanced, a little bit better, maybe for compounds, maybe maybe four to six. But yeah, I don't think there's necessarily ever much of a need for for people to be doing like singles and doubles if jujitsu is your goal. However, I do also think that sometimes that again, like um, you know, people like people like for example, like quite a few people that I coach, for example, I know like they actually like love lifting weights and they really like doing triples, for example, on a bench. So it's like, well, yeah, that's okay, we can absolutely do that. Because again, if they're enjoying that, that's going to improve compliance, and also if they're enjoying it, they're probably going to just they're they're probably just going to be you know a bit more mentally aroused for their sessions, and then therefore their performance is probably going to be better over the long term, too. But yeah, I'd say that's the kind of general rep ranges that I would stick to. And I think with regards to like movements, I I personally like to keep it very simple. I like to, you know, I think in a program, uh, I think having a squat in there, so whether that be like a a back squat, a front squat, um, a Bulgarian split squat, the Zertrus squat, I just think any squat, I think any hinge, again, any deadlift, it could be a conventional deadlift, trap bar deadlift, any form of a deadlift, and then I think um a horizontal push-pull, so any form of a bench, and any form of a rope, and then any form of a vertical push-pull, so any overhead press, any form of a pull-down, throw in some arms, um, throwing some cores, throwing some plyos, and um I've never really done it personally, I've never really trained my neck directly, but should people you know, should people be that way inclined, again, I think that could be a relatively good idea too.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, nice man. And any thoughts in regards to like volume, like uh, I don't know, amount of of sets that people should be doing with each lift across across a week to optimise um, I guess, benefits or strength?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I would say for I would say for jujitsu, I would say you know, if if if powerlifting is your goal, I think things definitely vary massively. Um, because like that's the sport itself, but I'd say for for jujitsu, the the whole point of of our lifting is we're getting stronger and fitter and uh becoming more athletic for the mat. So we don't want to be doing so much in the gym that by the time you get to the mat, you're then fucked. Um I'd say honestly, between again, depending on time constraints, the person's like like experience levels and also like their recovery as well, uh, and like their work capacity abilities, I'd say between two and four sets per per per exercise.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, man, that's awesome. And and just thinking back to like your your peak powerlifting days, obviously you're a lot lighter now, so you're gonna be not as strong, but like pound for pound, do you think you're still like as similar as strength what you were when powerlifting?
SPEAKER_01:Eh, good question. Um I'd say my upper body is um not actually like a million miles away. Um, like right, so like for example, like right now, I I I I based off of my bench press right now and like the reps I'm doing, I I could bench 200 for one. Um I could do a 200kilo bench. Um, and I would say when I finish, I could probably do 225 to 230. So I'm actually not that far behind. Um my overhead press, I didn't ever do overhead press when I'd done powerlifting, so technically my overhead press is the strongest it's ever been. I'd say my upper body is definitely um I'd say my lower body, no, maybe not.
SPEAKER_00:You've got to be one of the strongest grapplers on the on the pro scene, surely, still. Is there is there anybody else that you're aware of that like has a similar credentials in regard to strength to you?
SPEAKER_01:On like uh like the and like who competes at ADCC, um don't think so. Dan's very, very, very he's like you know, unusually strong. Um yeah, he's like he's pretty ridiculously strong. Um I think that in a gym, I think I could I would lift more than him, but on the mat, I don't I don't think I'm stronger than than Dan to be fair. Um outside of him, I don't think so, uh if I'm honest. Um there's another there's another guy uh uh Kingsway, I don't know if you're aware of a guy called the Mobility Monster. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Came across his Instagram. Yeah, he's yeah, he's like makes me feel like a child. Yeah, he literally makes me feel like a child.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, some people are just so fucking big.
SPEAKER_01:He's enormous. Um so yeah, I'd say I'd say like, yeah, him and Dan. Outside of that, I'm not too sure. To be fair, uh I know um what's this what's there's a a world strongest man winner, um I forget his name, Martins Lisees. Do you know who Martins Lisees is? No, I don't think so. No, so he he won World Strongest Man in 2019, I think. See he's a blue belt in jiu-jitsu right now, and like he competes in jiu-jitsu as a blue belt, so he's stronger for sure. I'd say he's stronger as well. Um yeah, but I would say like on like an actual like competing at ADCC, I would say like in the weights room, I think I probably I would feel confident saying I probably tip it. Um but um on the mat I would say I might be, I might be, I don't know. Dan's very strong.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, man. I'll probably go with that for the thumbnail anyway, just uh heads up. But mate, it's crazy. Like it's just like like we said a second ago, it mass moves mass, doesn't it? And and that's the thing. I watched your match uh with Dan just a little bit earlier. I had a coming up to speak to you, and when you said you were like six foot three, I mean, what do you weigh at the moment?
SPEAKER_01:Um for trials I'll be done at like 125 kilos. Okay. So pretty much 125 kilos.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and an ADCC last year were you a similar weight?
SPEAKER_01:I'd say probably the exact same, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So when I saw you against Dan, you're like obviously six foot three or six foot four, whatever you said, and uh 125 kilos, and he looks so fucking big next to you, it's just it's fucking madness, mate, how how big some people are.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, not at all. He felt it too.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, mate. Fair play. Dude, this has been a really good chat, and I've I've enjoyed the the conversation around obviously all the powerlifting stuff, and and I think we've offered some really good advice around um obviously like the lifts and the gym work for people listening. So hopefully they've taken a lot away from today. Uh, I know you're you're a busy guy and you probably want to get the training, so I'm gonna wrap this up in a second. But did you want to shout any like thanks to anybody, any sponsors or anything, mate, before we go?
SPEAKER_01:Uh yeah, so thanks to so sponsors-wise, um progress, strong, atomic dojo, um thanks to those three, and then um thanks to you know my fiance, my coaches, or my training partners. I don't want to name individual names because then I don't want to forget people, but yeah, thanks to all of them. Yeah, and thanks to you for having me on as well.
SPEAKER_00:No, it was a pleasure, mate, and and all the best, obviously, with getting the visa sorted in the move and with obviously ADCC and everything else, mate. But appreciate your time, mate. Thank you for coming on. Thank you, Cheers, brother.
